Sometimes old laws should be put out to pasture for everyone’s sake.
Have you ever heard the expression, “Rules were made to be broken?” Many rules are good, and our society would be in even worse shape than it is now if rules were not in place and enforced. But every once in a while we run across a rule that deserves to be buried in the past. This particular one is as wrinkled as a raisin.
There is a law dating back to the Harry S. Truman Administration that allows the U.S. government to seize a portion of farmers’ raisin crops. Specifically, as described in a recent edition of the Washington Post, the law gives the government power to interfere with the supply and demand for dried grapes.
In order to avoid supply outstripping demand – and thereby lowering the price of dried fruits such as grapes – the government sometimes seizes raisins to keep them off the U.S. market. A raisin farmer living in Kerman, California, has been ignoring this law for the past 11 years, believing that it should have been dissolved decades ago.
Because Marvin Horne has been defying the law for so long, he owes at least $650,000 in unpaid fines and 1.2 million pounds of unpaid raisins. A lower court rejected Horne’s challenge of the law, but the Supreme Court has told that court to reconsider it.
Horne calls the law “robbery,” “socialism,” “communism” and “feudalism,” while one of the Supreme Court justices said that it might be “the world’s most outdated law.”
What do you think? Do you believe that the government should have the right to seize a portion of a farmer’s raisin crops because a law from the midpoint of the 20th century says so? What would you do if you were that farmer?
Every form of government need a “Sunset Law”!!! All laws must be created under the Sunset Law; meaning after say, 5 years, that law is null and void. To have new life that law must enter the same procedures as all laws to be re-established and authenticated.
The Declaration of Independence clearly defines the considerations for laws; and the Constitution Clearly restricts what authority the Government has. What we need is lawyers and the rest of the people be educated on both of these documents so the proper application of laws be designed. Labeling something with a name does not make it that name; just as calling a creek, a river, does not make it so.
On gun control,I found this quote. This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, or police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future! This “sounds all-too-familiar of what states and local government’s are saying. It was written by Adolf Hitler 1935. We must pay close attention to what is being said or written by our politicians and statesman. Love your country be afraid of your government. May God bless and be safe.
Do you know how to catch a wild Pig You put up one piece of fence and some corn They will come then in a couple days another piece of fence and they will come More corn more pigs and soon you have up 3 sided Then one day when they are all eating you put up the last piece of fence and now you have a fenced in group of pgs.. This si what the government has done to the welfare people as well as seniors as they all get checks from the government and all are afraid if the complain they will get more tax and more big brother watching They have fenced in over 1/2 the population. What does this have to do with raisins ??? Many will not fight as they can no longer afford to take on the government and do not want him around any more than he has to be. The only way to stop this is a revolut333.Like many years ago and that is the only way to change this once great country. As well vote And if we elect another bad one vote him out every 4 years until they don’t get their pension and only have a job for 4 years. We the people need to stand together just as we did when I fought to defend this country . We can win
A correction, the S.S. fund is not gov. owned but we who worked for our living paid into this fund as also our employer & our state did. So it is not our by the Gov. altogether.
Let’s see …. the government forcibly confiscates what the farmer has raised to make a living off of, so the the price of the crop he has remaining will sell at a higher price so that he can make a living. Wouldnt it make sense to let him keep it all, sell more at a lower price? He make the same total, and consumers get a lower priced product. Whats the problem? Oh yes, the government did not get their tribute.
Since when was it ever about making sense in Gov’t…
“In Tyranny there is only failure”
Robin Hood
I am shocked, shocked that the idiot Bureaucrats have not swooped in and confiscated every thing this man has, or placed his nuts in a vice and turned the handle to squeeze, what the politicians do not have. The EPA is doing the same thing to all Americans when it comes to energy. While Your elected Representatives fill their pockets and blab about what ever it is they do. How about an old fashioned hanging for the lot, Begin with OBOZO!!!!
This is so interesting. Everybody has an oppinion. Oppinions are like assholes. Everybody has one and they all stink. O.K. The government is doing things you don”t agree with? They have been doing things people don’t agree with for over a hundred years. Look and see what the government has done with the Indians. They give them land, and then they take there land and move all the indians to another place. That is our government. Our government can take anything away from you. It doesent matter how much you paid for it or who gave you whatever, If the government wants it they will take it. We are lucky we live in the USA. Look at what is happening in Mexico with land owners. Look at the rest of the world. Think of the government as a Mafia. Treat the government as a Mafia. If you want to stay alive, do as the Mafia tells you and you will be OK. Go against the Mafia and you will know and meet your maker very soon. As long as you live within the United states, all your assets belong to the government. Everything belongs to the government. What do you think your social security is for? Did you fall off a tree and hit your head? The government owns you. If you can save $10,000.00. under your mattress, then one day you take it out and go to the Bank and try to make a deposit. You will be cross examined and re-examined of how you have that money. Then the IRS will be making contact with you and taxing you again on that money you already payed taxes on. So you see it is not yours. Even if you have Gold or Silver. Who do you think establishes the value of Gold and Silver? The government. Your Farms are not yours. Yeah you paid for the right to live there with the money you recieved from the government, until the government wants it back. What happens if you buy land and you have no body to give it to? and who ever you give it to must pay the yearly tax or the government takes all of it. I think it’s better to live on welfare and have nothing, than to have something the government can take. If you have welfare, you have everything. Education, Healthcare, Foodstamps. It may not be anything compared to a rich person but never the less it will be something. Kinda like living in the projects. That is what America is turning into. The projects. There is so many people that I think the third world war is going to help? Maybe not? All my kids whent into the Army,Navy and Marines. They are still there. Maybe that is what everybody should have thiere children do? Join the United states military. Then walk into the new world order of one government.
This is really a good rant though it ends on a seemingly negative note. SURRENDER AND WIN! That’s what alcoholic’s are taught. There is some kinda ancient wisdom in it when done properly one suspects.
Same thing with peanut farmers !
I think Mr Horne should demand a jury trial, and make sure that the jury knows that they have the right to judge the law as well as the facts. Bad laws should be nullified.
Unfortunately a law is a law until the government changes it. The farmers should band together and meet with their representatives to get the law changed.
The BLM is doing the same thing all over the western U.S. They are cutting on back grazing for cattle, and at the same time ignoring their own mandates for control of “Wild Horse” numbers. The SPCA has a lot of $ to make this violation of federal laws possible. I wonder.. Who is getting all that SPCA money???
NO ITS NOT RIGHT!!!!!! IM SURE IF WE DID THAT TO THEM THEY WOULD BE JUST AS PISSED….i think some things up myself…why are they all the sudden wanting this mans money and crops after 11 years….hmmmmm…i think there prepareing for some thing that we dont know about….they have been doing this to more then just this raisen farmer….
We need more JOHN ADAMS BEN FRANKLIN GEORGE WASHINGTON HAMILTON and so on
clean up this mess, the goverment is going nuts
Oh you mean intelligent white men as rulers of this land? I couldn’t agree more… lol.
Well, you could look at this two ways. One way is the farmers are getting subsidies from the government to keep and protect them from other raisin growers around the world.
And second, if the government would just allow the free market to work, it will work itself out. too many raisins on the market the price goes down, because of supply. too little raisins on the market the price goes up again because of supply.
As a believer in smaller government, I don’t think that the government should be involved in all that it is involved in. And I think that the people should be able to keep more of their labor than they do now. Laws do need to change for different reasons, but there is a process. By ignoring the law for 11 years as is stated in the article, this is the problem. From the little info we have on the law, it seems to be a phone call to his or her national rep. to get this law removed or repealed. But, I have a feeling there is more to this than what is written. We are a nation of laws (too many I agree) but we can’t all be like Eric Holder and pick and choose which laws we want to obey and which ones we want to forget about.
Very well written and informative; you have done some
homework on this subject.
YES, smaller government is the answer so the states can
decide their own rules appurtenant to their own needs!
Regards,
Portia
I agree with the free market. I’m totally against the subsidies, because I have seen first hand where & what the money is used for and it isn’t farming or ranching. With Excess “crops” , growers should be allowed to sell where ever there is a market, except for countries with bans. Make it or break it on your own, but not at taxpayer expense, i.e. subsidies.
Each State has an obscure law or two on the books over time makes it funny to read today when you compare it to yesteryear. For example in the State of Georgia a man must walk before a horseless carriage with a red lantern. I guess everyone that lives in Georgia and drives a car is in violation of this law.
But the Bible has said it best when it speaks about laws. A law is suppose to guide the people in living with each other, acting for the benefit of the people, and to administer justice when the law has been violated or harm has been caused by another. The Bible speaks of the laws as living. This means that it is to change as the times and circumstances changes over time. Providing, that the law still reflects the virtues that were mention above.
When the Founding Fathers created the laws for this country, they had the same thing in mind for the laws of the land. They realized that times will change and the laws must also change to fit the people in a new era. The old laws were meant to be deleted or changed over time, thus that law would be considered a living law.
Over time old laws were forgotten and the legislators fail to keep up with the times and delete these obsolete laws. In later years the various district attorney’s have found it useful to apply an obsolete law to their benefit when a current situation is not covered by an updated law.
The question now becomes should obsolete laws be deleted or should they remain on the books. As of now the district attorney’s prefer to keep these old laws on the books just in case. for example an man can be fined up to $50.00 and one day in jail for spitting on the sidewalk. This law goes back to 1849 when men use to chew tobacco and spit anywhere and everywhere.
So the question now becomes how much common sense is needed to enforce a law. In the above case it is pretty silly to charge a farmer because he grows raisins. Whereas, a cattle rancher in Nevada is charged over a million of dollars in fines because he used public lands to graze his cattle. The Department of land management wants to convenscate the ranchers cattle. The rancher insists that the lands that his cattle graze upon was open range and has been since he been a young man. The rancher feels that he is within his rights to use the land even though the Department of Land Management changed it rules for the use of this land. They want payment to use the land. The rancher insist that he was grandfathered in and is exempt from such actions. The bottom line is that both need to resolve this matter before the Federal Courts and neither will do so knowing that they may lose their case. The Department of Land Management wants the rancher to spend his monies on court costs. The rancher wants the government to take him to court because he knows that they will lose. If a man has been doing something over and over for years then he has created a tort. This means that legally he has the right to continue doing what he was doing until he has decided to stop.
So, the law, although obsolete; still has teeth to it and legally can be enforced.
How is it that the raisin farmer hasn’t a tort? He’s been doing it for decades.
This is another thing to hurt famers and as we loose more and more farmers were will our food come from I guest China.
We should start by repealing the Afordable Care Act, then start weeding out any outdated or unConstitutional laws. We should remove 3 or more old laws for every one we add.
Great, just screw everyone below the middle class. It’s bad enough stupid employers don’t give benefits. It’s there right, you say. Well fine, let the government pick up the slack. In the old days, people who had jobs could support themselves and their families regardless if it was pumping gas or sitting at a desk.
But yes, get rid of this stupid raisin law.
We should start with the “Brady Law”. To my knowledge, it’s never been contested. Here in Texas where I live, it’s still illegal to ride your horse if it’s drunk. If ya’ can’t drink with your horse then who can you drink with? Besides, I’d like to see a cop try to get a horse to blow into a ‘breathalizer’. The cops would probably use it as an excuse to shoot and kill the horse. Stealing dried grapes is stealing….period. There are also too many double standards when it comes to laws. Congress is exempt from every law they pass. Hmmmm? Wouldn’t that be something a “hostile government” would do?
I BELIEVE THERE MUST BE LAWS IN EVERY STATE THAT NEEDS TO BE REMOVED. FOR INSTANCE, IN TEXAS IT WAS AGAINST THE LAW TO CARRY A PAIR OF WIRE CUTTING PLIERS BECAUSE FREE RANGE RANCHERS WOULD CUT THE FARMERS WIRE FENCE. THE MARKET SHOULD DETERMINE THE PRICE FOR RAISINS AND THE GOVERMNENT SHOULD STAY OUT. I ASSUME THE FARMER IS PAYING HIS INCOME TAXES, SO THE GOVERNMENT WOULD BE DOUBLE DIPPING.
The government has worn out it’s welcome – What is that stipulation in our Constitution pertaining to government and it’s duty the citizens?? If I would quote it, would I become a traitor…? I daresay yes under the prying eyes of this self serving self perpetuating, overtaxing, overbearing fascist pig government…. How long will it be when I won’t be able to write my opinion? Have I just taken a gamble on my life? Maybe Obama should ponder on these thoughts as he and his wife take another sip on the public tit and vacation in Hawaii.
Some laws definitely need to be retired, state and federal. For example did you know it was legal to kill a Mormon in Missouri until I believe, the 1990’s because of a law Governor Boggs put on the books in the mid 1800’s. I think our legislators need to spend some time eliminating old out dated laws not just adding more and more new laws. It would be a better use of their time!
Really this is nothing new. In the Roosevelt era the SCOTUS ruled that by not selling wheat a farmer was guilty of engaging in interstate commerce. This is just more Socialist Fascism. Did you know that the 1940’s dimes had the Fascist symbol on the tails side? Google it.
Technically if it’s ‘outdated’ law, it could be treated as a mere technicality to be deleted as if it should have been decades ago. Residual Jim-Crow laws etc would be!
In the Deep South Jim-Crow laws are still in effect only through systematizing a number of economic, educational and social disadvantages. They even still have what is called Blue Laws. Blue Laws are laws designed to restrict or ban some or all Sunday activities for religious standards, particularly the observance of a day of worship or rest. Blue laws may also restrict shopping or ban sale of certain items on specific days, most often on Sundays. for example, prevent liquor from being sold on Sundays. Chick-Fil-A restaurants are closed on Sundays in part of the old Blue Laws.
Little you know. Blue laws are fading away you can now buy alcohol on Sunday in most of the south in more and more places. Chick filet closed on Sunday has nothing to do with government but owner’s of faith. Agree or not with their beliefs you must admire they put doing what they believe is right above millions of dollars. Most of their workers r probably glad to close Sunday.
I’m seeing a lot of “U.S. government this” and “U.S. government that” but I’m not seeing anything about what the respective States are doing about it. Each state in this nation is an autonomy, and the U.S. government powers in regards to land only encompass the area of Washington D.C. When are these states going to stand up and have a say of what goes on in their own territory? It’s the people who empower the states and the states that empower the U.S. government. Why are the states acting like a cut-out middle man? Why aren’t they taking matters into their own hands?
I think to many of the states are bowing at the altar of the almighty Fed afraid that the money stream will be cut off if they don’t keep bowing. I think it’s time our states, communities and individuals realize we would all be better off doing for ourselves than playing the one size fits all crap of the feds. Take education as another example.
Most if not all the State governments have found that acceptance of federal funding, for anything from highways to food stamps to education, came with a bunch of “fine print” & conditions that those who originally applied for or agreed to the funding may or may not have been aware of. The same tactic has been used by our government, in conjunction with selected corporations, to force many third world countries into situations not to the benefit of their citizens (which is a major source of much of the hate & discontent against the US in other parts of the world.) Both states & foreign countries now find themselves too dependent on said funding to go without, so like workers beholden to the “company store” they just keep digging themselves in deeper & deeper. The only way this will ever change is if either a) the citizens in question revolt & simply refuse to cooperate any more (which is what the farmer here appears to be trying to do), or b) those governments explain the situation to their people and get people to agree to tighten their belts, go without the bennies, whatever it takes, until the debts can be paid off and they can be free of federal obligations. (Germany managed to pay off its entire war debt to the Allied nations; it can be done.) But since most people only want “cuts” to apply to “other people”, and not to their own benefits, it’s pretty hard to get a population to vote/agree to do without; so unfortunately, “a” is more likely to happen than “b”.
Stalin must be laughing in his tomb. Obama and company must go. Can we the people recall this public enemy before it’s too late?
Compare this action to the Nevada rancher. Where ever this transformation of America can find any way, by outdated laws or Obama’s pen, agenda 21 is on the way. The rancher may have broken the law but he is right when he implies that the will of Reid and feds takes, not only the black but all Americans, into slavery to the good old elite of a dictatorial government. Be prepared to embrace agenda 21 or join the effort to stop it. How can intelligent men and women place such a government on their own posterity that will be captive to Their radical movement to destroy America and it’s constitution. America is the last hope of civil freedom and liberty.
The Elite world wide that want to impose Agenda 21 on all of us believe that they will wind up on top telling all of us what to do. Believe it or not, but this has been the end game for centuries. Even before Jesus tried to kick the money changers out to the Temple.
Many years ago the US government paid farmers NOT to plant produce but instead to plant their fields in grass. The farmers obliged and today those fields are full of brush unable to produce any produce. The money from the government is no longer paid because that was a law a long time ago. The raisin law is also outdated and the price of raisin prices should be based on the law of supply and demand: the more you produce the less the price and the less you produce the more you are paid. That has been in force ever since I went to college in the early 1960’s. It should be so today.
I grew up on a farm during the period you are talking about and while my family no longer farms. (Farm sold to pay for long term care). I still have ties to the farming community. a few farmers did leave some fields fallow for long terms, but this was not the standard practice. When the payments stopped, the fields were brush hogged and plowed. Putting them back into production. During the program, most farmers would let a field rest for a year or two, then plow under the resulting green fertilizer as they rotated their crops. Generally the resting field would be brush hogged at least once a year to keep down weeds.
Agenda 21 which is a driver of the obama administration is anti private property. The more we drift from the Biblical principles we’re founded on the mor enslaved we become. Free Market Capitalism is a Biblical Principle; wage & price controls are not: Proverbs 11:26 He that withholdeth corn, the people shall curse him: bu blessing shall be upon the head of him that selleth it.
When Proverbs was written corn or maze was unknown in the old world. The proper translation is grain.
Maize, known in some English-speaking countries as corn, is a large grain plant domesticated by indigenous peoples in Mesoamerica in prehistoric times. The leafy stalk produces ears which contain the grain, which are seeds called kernels. Maize kernels are often used in cooking as a starch.
Corn is an old English word that means grain. E.G. Barleycorn. In the USA colonists applied it to maize.
Harry Golata was quoting from KJ bible i believe which was correct usage at the time of writing.
If governments and business didn’t manipulate markets, we would be in a much healthier condition economically than we are today. and we would likely not be on the verge of the revolutionary/civil/ideological war we are certainly headed for. The Communist/ Alinsky playbook has been put to evil use. And it is on the brink of achieving it’s desired effect. We should stand ready to defeat this threat to freedom. Or we should be ready to kneel before our slave masters. I choose the former.
If the farmer in question knew that the law said thus and thus, then he should have divided his crop of grapes. some for raisins and some for the local wine maker. Problem solved and he is still making money, perhaps more… Other than that, the law was intended to help him just as it is today when a farmer is paid to let his fields go fallow. Does anyone complain about getting paid to do nothing? Frankly, I don’t understand that, however, I may not be as educated as the people making the laws. Get paid to let your fields go fallow, I knew I should have taken up farming.
I did not see where he would be paid for his grapes. from what I read above the only thing mentioned is that the government take part of his crop off the market to control the market. Then there is the ever present high penalty marker that is a cornerstone of most all government programs and agencies. Couple this with the raid on the cattle industry and you do see just a small example of how transforming America is a transformation of all rights, property, energy, and power to the elite in government control. The rancher is right that the transformation of America is designed to enslave All people and destroy the constitution and bill of rights. Agenda 21 is on it’s way be prepared or help try to stop it. The constitution has never been in such danger.
Unbelievable. That’s all I can say. I am almost without words. The fact that a court upheld this and had to be told by the Supreme Court to take a look again even leaves me with fewer words.
I’m sure the lower court that upheld it was going by the principle that a law, even if a bad law, is still a law, and as such can be enforced until it is changed or removed. A little late now, but what this farmer (& others in the same situation) should have done was appeal to their legislators &/or take the constitutionality of the law to court, at the OUTSET of when they began to believe the law was unjust, and not after many years of disregarding it. As it is, if not for the Supreme Court deciding to pick and choose which laws to enforce (which in turns bolsters the President’s and the Attorney General’s claims to the right to do so), the farmer is or could be in great danger of having his entire farm confiscated & sold due to “back taxes” or however they want to word the violation of the existing law. Since, as others have pointed out, that seems to be the end game of the whole socialist government movement, I would not want to be the one betting on the government NOT taking my farm.