Do you want law enforcement agencies to have access to your text messages?
Everyone agrees that the Electronics Communications Privacy Act of 1986 needs to be updated, but law enforcement officials and the rest of us are pretty far apart regarding how that should happen. While many people want private communications to remain private, law enforcement agencies are petitioning Congress to require wireless providers including AT&T, Verizon and Sprint to record and store cell phone texts for up to two years, “just in case” they might be needed for investigations.
Caught in between – and ultimately responsible for deciding what becomes the law of the land – is Congress. The Major Cities Chiefs Police Association is claiming that law enforcement investigations will be hindered without access to text messages, which in the past have been introduced as evidence in armed robbery, cocaine distribution and wire fraud prosecutions. Privacy expert Hanni Fakhoury, on the other hand, says that data retention policies serve only one purpose: “to require companies to keep databases on their customers so law enforcement can fish for evidence.”
I found this Freedom Outpost article, Cops Want Congress to Store Your Text Messages, and I thought it was pretty interesting. Currently, the privacy bill awaiting a vote in early 2013 focuses on emails, but it’s likely that wording about cell phone texts will be added at some point.
At this point, an easy-to-obtain court order is all that’s needed to access private emails, but the new bill is expected to make things at least somewhat tougher for law enforcement. Will the same type of challenge exist when it comes to extracting text messages from individuals or phone companies? People who want easy access to private communications argue that the chances of thwarting a terrorist attack increase with this kind of surveillance. Privacy advocates counter that the right to pry will be abused and will wind up curtailing the freedoms of law-abiding citizens.
How do you feel about this subject? Is the benefit to public safety worth making it easy police, the FBI, CIA, etc., to obtain citizens’ emails and text messages? Frankly, I tend to feel that they should have to conclusively prove that the information they wish to obtain is crucial to their investigations. Please weigh in on this topic because I’d love to hear what you have to say about it.
There is this organization, “Citizens for Self-Governance”,That is collecting signatures on petitions to the differant States, to call a convention of States.
Interested people, ? This is the format:
CONVENTION OF STATES PETITION
WHEREAS, Our Federal government is on a dangerous course, The unsustainable debt combined with crushing regulations on states and businesses is a recipe for disaster; and
WHEREAS, Article V of the constitution authorizes the state legislatures to call a convention for the limited purpose of proposing amendments to the constitution–and Citizens for Self-Governance has launched the Convention of States Project for the purpose of proposing amendments that impose fiscal restraints and limitations on the power, scope, and jurisdiction of the federal government, and limit the terms of office for its officials and for members of Congress; and
WHEREAS, I want ( _your state_) to be one of the necessary 34 states that passes a resolution calling for a Convention of the States.
THEREFORE, I petition you as my duly elected representative to support the Convention of States Project and become either the lead sponsor or co-sponsor of a resolution in the next legislative session.
SIGN IT, Date it, your e-mail,
List Your, State House District number
and Your State Senate District number
Now this Goes to: Governor Mike Huckabee
c/oCitizens for Self-Governance
PO Box 1375
Merrifield, VA 22116-1375
And of course to carry out this massive grassroots campaign, they are asking for tax-deductible gifts.
and I would think an amendment to abide by the Constitution, in that a person is to be secure in their private papers, and communications, and all private matters.
sorry for the length, But a way to respond is this.
I think our govt should allow Americans to see all of their emails and texts, and listen to their private phone calls, and invade their privacy like they’re wanting to do, or already doing to us! They have become so corrupt, giving themselves raises without approval from tax payers, accepting money from lobbyists to pass laws in their favor or in other words, taking bribes. They are obsessed with power and think they are untouchable, thinking of themselves as the ‘world’s policeman’, sending troops all over the world and establishing military bases and office buildings. It is no wonder we are the most hated country in the world. Washington DC has become a cesspool of corruption and dirty dealings, and something needs to be done about it!
Tell law enforcement and everybody else except who we are writing to KEEP THEIR NOSES OUT OF OUR BUSINESS. WE are NOT the criminals! They should be trying to catch criminals, NOT the general American public. If our government would block the borders and stop all the criminals from coming into OUR country illegally and send the criminals back where they came from, we wouldn’t be going through this garbage. The government is to blame for all the extra gang and drug activity, healthcare woes, shortage of money due to giving it away to them to live on, and on and on it goes. Wake up, people! The government is NOT our friend.
Why would law enforcement need access to our emails when holder and obama let out 30 thousands criminals, felons and illegals? They’re caught, tried and found guilty, and released before the end of their sentence. What a waste of time and resources!
There is a line that should not be crossed. If you have enough evidence to support a warrent, then by all means, go ahead. But to do it because a person tooks “suspisious”? That is going to far.
It is scary that congress even wants that power. I would like to run far far away but that is not to be. I have to fight for my rights that my forefathers died for!!!
As a LEO for over 30 years, I can see both sides of the equation. I was lucky enough to not be involved in any terrorist situations but some of the situations seemed very close.
That said and now being retired my experience has always been that a SEARCH WARRANT was needed to obtain information on a targeted person or group. The idea that any of the cell or phone companies should intentionally keep copies of our communications for ANY period of time is in itself an invasion of privacy. Much less for the supposed use of LE for indiscriminate investigations. That my friends, folks and neighbors is just being bored and nosy.
In my time I met several well meaning officers that needed numbers to justify their existence or position. Especially near the end of the year. They would involve themselves in Leaching or involving themselves in cases from other divisions or departments. Mostly because they had nothing else to do or were just too lazy to work.
This Leaching sounds a whole lot like what the feds are doing now. With all of their money and abilities, the trend seems to be, I can solve it from my desk with a computer and a phone. I don’t need to get off of my lazy ass and go out into the world. I don’t need to go meet people and talk to them. I can target them from my desk. That is just so much Bulls–t.
Leads, reasonable suspicion and probable cause are the standards for an investigation of any sort. If you aint got it you aint getting it.
I concur, that Nazi Germany has taken over our country…we must read to educate ourselves as people to protect our Freedom.
I knew this was a mistake when all the Idiot Democrats re elected him. It will very hard to get rid of him when ever his term is over. He is another “Hitler” and wants America. So, beware! Now you are wanting another Idiot, Hillary Clinton. We do NOT need Democrats messing up America for another 4 years. WE NEED A STRONG CHANGE.
I agree, we can’t let Hillary get in. She will just continue this run of trying to turn us into a socialist or communist 3rd world country. We the people will have no say in anything. that is why the constitution was written. To protect us from the government.!
This is real bad.you gotta look at the nwo and see whats its about.then it will make since.senior bush syned it in.obamunist and left are following it thru.thats why the boarders are open.I do beleve that marshal law will fallow with whats coming across.this has been in the works for a long time.Plus we have about 47 senaters that are members of the sosialists partie.I wish everybody luck and be safe
Want to make the government sit up and take notice of your discontent with its unConstitutional activities?
Don’t pay into it any more.
RE: dont pay into it anymore. See Dave Champion and losthorizons.com
Our founding fathers knew the truth about safety and that compromising freedom as a means to insure safety is foolishness.
Ben Franklin: They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety
Patrick Henry: s life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!
Sam Adams: If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your council, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
If the world would turn back to God, and repent of their sins, none of this would be necessary. The world started to come apart at the seems when America decided to acquiesce to everyone, regardless of belief policy. America was founded upon GOD. When we get back to that, He will change things for the better. Government and law makers are powerless against a Sovereign God. I wonder when all that will sink in…
I so concur. Bring God back inside the home and in our government and watch this country rebound. But how do you convince the masses already absorbed with their own self gratification that they need to change their lives? If you can find that one person capable of influencing the egotistical masses, it is a start. Lucifer already got his spokesman, Obama the Deceiver!
If the fact that GOD is waiting for our repentance, doesn’t sink in soon. kiss the planet away …. GOD Bless all of us ..
You all are seriously missing something here!!!
The Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) is a United States wiretapping law passed in 1994.
I worked for 10 years for a local phone company that was FORCED to make changes in order to be CALEA compliant or risk being shut down NO QUESTIONS ASKED!!
This is something that has been in place for a long time now and one of the primary reasons was something to this affect: A “bad guy” say a drug dealer or the sort, needs to have his phone tapped so the FBI goes out and gets a warrant then heads over to the phone company’s central office and works with someone to “tap” the line. Well in the past that certain someone might know the guy that was being tapped and give him a heads up so NOW they use this as a reason to have COMPLETE and UNMONITORED access to ALL COMMUNICATIONS regardless whether there is “probable cause” so warrants aren’t even needed to “listen in” or go through your emails, etc. And since all cell based wireless communications travel through hard wired facilities at some point we are and have been for some time now part of BIG BROTHER!!
“Unplugging” in this world will continue to be increasingly more and more difficult.
those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither!!
Hi Frank, Yes this war on privacy rights has been active for some time. though I believe that e-mail, and text information would be very useful to law enforcement. However, the opportunity to abuse this info, and fish for evidence is very high. The NSA has already been doing this for quite some time. They currently have computer programs that sniff out key words then filter communications.(it is no big secret) My point is, that ANY law enforcement agency should have to show a high level of probable cause, and any request to obtain these types of communication should require a court order, and be able to show this high level of probable cause. on a case by case basis. true it makes it difficult and ties up the courts, However we cannot allow Any agency to have Carte Blanche to our communications. As for the companies that provide our communications, I understand that most of them already store our communications for 30 or 60 days and it should not go beyond that.
Thanks.
If the U.S. government is so concerned about domestic terrorism, then we should examine our own role as the number 1 terrorist empire on the planet. In a society of controlled drones, any one with enough balls to speak against the establishment will be labeled as a domestic terrorist. It happened in every brutal regime in history. Lets face it people, history might not exactly repeat itself, but it definitely rhymes. Law enforcement wants easier access to private communications to curtail crime, but that’s like taking a pain killer for a deadly disease. How about we examine the corruption of law enforcement at the highest levels, which is preventing any real ‘cures’ to crime! I for one, am fed up with the ‘Feds’ shit!
Nicely stated. Technology has opened a huge can of worms, many negatves along with the positives. It is like a cancer that starts small and engorges itself until the host is consumed. When the computer first evolved, clerics warned it was the devil’s folly, they were right. The only way to stop its abuse is by adopting GOOD SOLID LAWS.
People, you can make a difference. Contact your Congressmen, tell them your concerns, discuss changing existing badly written laws. MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD! Be the one person who makes their voice heard! Contact Congress until you are on a first name basis. This can all happen, but only if you ACT, and not just “talk” about it. So how badly do you want to preserve your FREEDOMS?
Our Founding Fathers fought hard and risked their lives to create the Land of the Free. What are you willing to do?
I am not ok with that. Should there be an investigation, a warrant for monitoring our texts should be required.
So what if the privacy bill is voted down, has that stopped Obama’s tribe from bleeding off telephone, e-mail and all other electronic transmissions in the past. We see in fact, law is not something ex-lawyer Obama cares one damn bit about. No one has taken this thief in the night to court for his criminal acts against the Constitution, so who can we expect to defend law abiding Americans against this traitor, if he orders continued collection of private communications? The Republicans are nothing more then sheep, following Obama’s dictates. This latest shutdown of government services did nothing for the common man. All the death and misery from fighting off the British control, along with the lives lost for so called Freedom and Democracy Wars, were for nothing, The USA is under control of a dictator every bit as cruel and miserable as any King of England. So much for Freedom and Democracy, our young are dying to spread this crap around the world. What a shame!
I have nothing to hide. While I don’t tend to trust the government often times, I also can’t imagine why they would care about my personal txt messages with my wife. We are two of 300+ million people in the US. Does anyone really think someone at the government wants this so they can read my txt conversations with my wife about what we are eating for dinner tonight?
Do you all not believe there is a very real threat to your way of life and freedoms, from terrorists? Would you not want a child rapist or someone who murdered your spouse to get convicted all because the txt conversation couldn’t be retrieved?
I said I have nothing to hide. But not everyone fits in that category. Ladies and gentlemen, the world has changed. It’s not only the good people who use technology to communicate their intentions.
While the vast majority of Americans have nothing to hide the fact remains that their communications should not belong to the public domain. Unless you are willing to forgo all of your Constitutional rights, your inalienable rights, do not be so free to relent to rights of privacy. Politicos are the true adversaries of all honest Americans as they will utilize any and all information they can, usually completely out of context, to defame you and impugn you credibility if you oppose what they say or want. Anyone who does not realize that fact is politically naïve and vulnerable.
The people of the United States of America need to get together and decide if we want to live in socialist society I for one having gone to war and come home with the knowledge of what we could be, if we continue to give up our right’s for what “they” call safety, we’ll lose everything I thought I was fighting for. I love this country and would hate to see it fall into a Islamic state ! So for the love of the country so many have died to protect STAND UP
The First and Fourth Amendment say it all for me. “Congress shall make no law … or abridging the freedom of speech …” “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.” The Constitution says it and I believe it. Any violation of the Constitution by those in the Executive, Legislative or Judicial branches is an act of felonious perjury for violating their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution and is treason against the citizens of America.
My problem with that is Obama goes over congress and does what ever he wants. How he gets the money I don’t know because the congress isn’t agreeing with a lot of things he has come up with but he still gets it done!
That’s a good point being the-House has control of the purse strings. Though the MO of the GOP has-had to be- “let BHO+admin/Dem-Senate” -have enough rope to hang themselves, this might be part of the noose!
I second what Wanda says here. Is there a Constitutional right that the feds haven’t trampled on? I love America with all my heart but it has become a different nation than the one I took an oath to defend 25 years ago. That does not mean I have or will ever give up on fighting for the freedom of all Americans against ALL enemies foriegn AND DOMESTIC… God Bless America!
Check-out OATH-KEEPERS ~!
this is the complete destruction of the United States Of America. Our Freedoms; Our Ideals.. The very core concept of the American Vision of itself as a country.
Our Civil Rights and Basic Civil Liberty.
Hitler Would be Proud.
Court orders or permission to access any communications by law enforcement should only be allowed when there is proof of illegal activity. Contents from communications should never be the basis of an investigation.
The alphabet agencies haven’t proved they can successfully thwart an illegal activity even when they obtain evidence from these wire taps and data mining schemes. Every intervention of illegal activity that I’m aware of has been done through stings and the use of informants.
I tend to believe the real reason for authorities desire to snoop on Americans is so they can develop more ways to control and manipulate us. We need to uphold the fourth amendment before they start putting cameras in our bedrooms.
No monitoring of text messages or emails or phone calls without proper legally obtained court orders.
I quit believing in the government the day JFK was assassinated. And that feeling was confirmed when I saw Lee Harvy shot on live TV.
Teach your children survival technique’s. I’ve lived with out cell phones before. It is an addiction I can kick. I am praying that the American people will wake up before it is to late.
MC – Mass Control – That’s what this is about. it is sad to know that the Gov’t is contemplating this information but far worse is to let it happen. I am completely against it. Privacy is essential for individuals. Gov’t should be there to protect the people not to try and have self incriminating proof on every patriot. It does not make sense to know this act can put away 2% of delinquents while the rest of the population are all being monitored. There officially is too much regulation, litigation going on now, I believe the Gov’t has expanded massively, all at the expense of the people who Give it Power and the Money to make it work in the first place. We must speak in unison that WE The People give them the power. We give them power – If they shall ignore our words and privacy then we must take that power away from them and back to the people. We can no longer be feeble minded like we were in 2007-2008 with the Credit Crunch – what ever happened to No Taxation Without Representation?
No, there is way too much room for abuse. what would keep them from coming after people that go against what the government wants them to think or do? Like conservatives or Christians. Muslims can do whatever they want and we have to be “tolerant” .
I think why pass more laws to do the polices jobs for them,that’s why they are considered investigaters,da! Investigate instead of having everything handed to them.on a different note what I write in my texts is my personal business,next the goverment will want to put cameras in our homes and cars so they will know every little thing we (The people) do.please don’t allow what little bit of freedom we do have be taken away. Thank you, Terri tipton
I think the police, etc should stick to the warrants and court orders for access to anyone’s private lives. If companies have to keep records for 2 years “just in case they might be needed”, then a lot of things will be blown out of proportion or be turned into something that they’re not and innocent people will end up paying the price. We need our privacy and we need God back in everyone’s life.
Sounds like a modern version of Nazi Germany. I am completely against it.
Also what about the manipulation of information by those with less moral compasses than others. What about inside trading by officials going thru emails text messages etc between business partners on new inventions or other private info that could compromise a company and investors.
Political enemies etc. These laws need to be tough because someone will always abuse them and misuse them if they believe they can, with little risk of being caught.
I concur in that I feel that it should be proven conclusively that such access is required, otherwise access should be denied.
no keeping records on every one make them prove that they have good reason to need your info. no more IRS under hand bull. no targeting people or groups because they don’t agree with you. REPEAL the PATRIOT ACT.
I do not support any infringement upon the Fourth Amendment. I do not support any componentof the so-called, misnamed Patriot Act. I will neither support nor legimize continued violations of the Constition or the Bill of Rights. I’m not afraid of terrorists but I am very concerned with the lawless actions of government and of corporations neither of which have been held accountable from the White House to Wall Street. Frankly, I’m not fooled and I’m not in denial or willing to shrug and accept the status quo.
AMERICANS, HAVE ANY OF YOU RESEARCHED HOW HITLER TOOK POWER OVER GERMANY AND ALL THE GERMAN-PEOPLE ? ? ? THE PARALLELS BETWEEN HITLER’S ACTIONS AND MR. BARACK OBAMA’S ACTIONS ARE HORRIFYING.
IT MAKES ME WONDER IF OBAMA HAS OBAMA’S PLAY-BOOK AND IS FOLLOWING THE STEPS ONE BY ONE.
THE TRUTH OF ALL OF THE THINGS HAPPENING IS THIS. THERE IS ONLY 1 WAY TO KEEP OUR COUNTRY AND MAKE SURE YOUR CHILDREN AND MINE WILL BE “FREE”;
AMERICA WAS FOUNDED WITH A COVENANT WITH HOLY-GOD. THIS IS WHY WE HAVE BEEN SO VERY SUCCESSFUL AND SO BLESSED. IF WE DO NOT GO BACK TO GOD, ASK FOR FORGIVENESS – TRULY REPENT THEN ASK GOD TO SAVE US I FEAR FOR OUR FUTURE.
SAM
Our government should not be snooping into any private correspondence without probable cause and a search warrant. Whatever they do with these saved text messages and emails, I doubt that they will find any terrorists or other criminals. More likely, they will find patriots who dare to question this invasion of privacy, or hold opposing political views, and target them for further spying and possible harassment. Unfortunately, too many people have the mindset that if they aren’t doing anything wrong, they don’t have to worry. They don’t realize that they only have to say something that someone in this administration doesn’t like, to become a person of interest. Our freedoms that were supposed to be guaranteed by our Constitution are quickly disappearing, and most people don’t seem to care.
I believe it is time to stand up and speak out. Have we forgotten that government officials work for us. We have allowed our country to be transformed from a Republic which is based on the rule of law to a democracy which is where the majority rules which is why Obama wants to give illegals staus because they will then vote democrate. Those of us that believe in the constitution need to rise up and speak out. It is not comfortable but it is necessary. We have also been dumbed down. Most American do not read so we need to change that. Must read books is waking the sleeping giant and fate of the states. If you do not like to read then get the books from audible.com and listen to them, just do it and educate yourself before it is too late. We have to stop being a nation that knows more about Survivor than about what is going on in the nation or we will not survive. God bless America.
In light of what just happened this weekend, I think it’s a done deal! They already have data bases…Verizon being the one told…and today they are trying to make the man who broke the story out to be guilty of TREASON! We, as a nation, have the right to know how far this has gone! Verizon customers should change phone companies immediately! It may not be their fault, but your conversations are now a matter of record, and whose to say one more could be read “with intent” and therefore be misinterpreted!
Privacy is one of the most fundamental rights fought for in the American Revolution. Any access to private information should be extremely difficult to obtain. Significant proof should be required for any government agency to the fact that the required information requested is crucial to an investigation. “Fishing expeditions” should never be allowed under no circumstances. It is too easy for basic rights to become eroded and once lost almost impossible to reclaim. Always err on the side of caution when dealing with personal rights and protections. Over and over world history shows what can happen when citizen’s protection are removed. “Best intentions” are often the major cause of allowing oppression to raise its ugly head.
Just like with anything, people who want to hide their communications can. There are many email encryption and text message programs out there that can handle your communications where neither the phone company or anyone else for that matter can see what you are doing. Just like with anything else, the people that want (or need) to hide sensitive data from prying eyes or ears will have the ability to do so no matter what congress or your ISP try to police. That along with cell phone storage encryption can stop them from seeing anything even if they have your device.
This is what came to my mind instantly. If that ever becomes a law, I believe most people incuding myself, will simply dump their cellphones. It amazes me, that with all the problems of the world, and our huge debt problems, that the government wants to spend even more money to know everything about everyone. It is just to control all of us, and since everything is about interpretation, I would hate to have someone look at my text’s to someone that was completely innocent, and read something into what was written and make it into something that wasn’t there.
My Dad retired from Riverside County Sheriffs office, so I know just how warped their thinking is first hand. He always looked for something to accuse me of, that never even entered my mind to do. Eves dropping on phone conversations with my friends, he would turn my conversations into something that I didn’t even recognize, so he could ground me.
As an individual that believes firmly in the moral law and why our founding fathers created the Constitution, we the people, need to hold accountable those in public office who take the oath to uphold that oath. I have great respect for those police men and woman who live this out.
The question of the forth amendment is, “what is unreasonable”! Probable cause needs to be specific, not a vague statement of we believe such and such… That is where government has gone too far.
I think they have way too much power and access already.I think we should repeal the patriot act in its entirety. I have forty years experience in telecommunications and know that they have entirely too much access to all of your communications.
The trend of history is that we are losing our civil rights. Although the big push is against the second amendment, this one goes against the fourth amendment.
When they go into your text messages, they are getting a lot more than what they are looking for in a specific criminal investigation. The fourth amendment requires them to have a warrant that lists what they are looking for. They don’t have the power to go fishing for anything. Similarly if they want to search your encrypted hard drive.
I know that the constitution and our civil liberties are a terrible inconvenience to our heroic first responders with radar guns, but I would stick to the constitution. I have taken numerous oaths to do so.
Law enforcement should be required to prove the information from text messages, or any other form of private communication, is crucial to the investigation for which the information is being sought and obtain a search warrant. We still do have a 4th Amendment if memory serves me correctly.
No! The phone companys should not have to keep 2 years or 2 seconds of text messages. Law enforcement needs “Probable Cause” and go through the proper channels to obtain warrants, court orders,etc. There is to much room for errow here on the part of Police. If phone companys have to store text messages they will use this to raise rates, I will bet on that! Due Process, Probable Cause, our Bill of Rights, all of our God give rights and Constitutional rights should not be infringe upon with the excuse good for our protection. I say Bull #@$. Don’t Pee Down My Back and try to convince me it’s raining. Pray and stand up for your rights and we can get our country back.
GOD BLESS AMERICA and AMERICAN PATRIOTS
The police already have the access to emails when an investigation is under way. I feel that they should always have to get a court order for them. If they have evidence that they are involved in a crime then they are fair game. I don’t however think the phone companies should have to store them for two years because the law MIGHT need them. I have nothing to hide but they are private communications between people. Our rights as citizens are going away very fast and we the people are just sitting back and watching it happen.