5 non-lethal ammo types
There are a couple of different philosophies regarding how to handle a home intruder. One is shoot to kill, no questions asked. The thought here is that if an uninvited person is in my home at 2 a.m., I have to assume that he is there to rob me at the very least and very possibly to abduct, rape or kill my family members. Therefore, this person has already forfeited his rights to a fair beat down, and I’m not going to waste my sympathy on a home intruder who is killed in the act.
The other philosophy is, I don’t want to kill anyone, even a burglar. If I use lethal force, there’s no undoing it. If I find out later that the person was mentally handicapped and had no idea where he was or what he was doing, I can’t bring him back to life again. Same for an unarmed teenager who was badly influenced by his peers. And if, God forbid, one of my bullets misses the mark, passes through a wall and hits my wife or one of my kids, I could never forgive myself.
Check out this discussion including information on non-lethal ammo that might take down an intruder without resulting in his family making funeral arrangements.
Probably the best reason to use live ammo rather than non-lethal ammo is because you might end up further infuriating an intruder rather than incapacitating him. But if you live with family members and aren’t too crazy about bullets penetrating walls and interior doors, non-lethal ammo may be the best option for you. If that’s what you decide to go with, here are five possibilities for you:
- Rubber bullets – Won’t penetrate the skin, but will leave nasty welts that will require medical attention.
- Wax bullets – These could penetrate the skin at close range or if they strike a sensitive body part.
- Plastic bullets – Used by police for riot control. Also used for target practice.
- Electric bullets – Metal or rubber bullets that release an electrical charge when they hit a target, much like a Taser or other shock weapon.
- Bean Bag Rounds – Designed to incapacitate the target and leave large welts but not penetrate the skin.
What kind of experience do you have with non-lethal bullets? Have they been effective at incapacitating a target or have they only made the situation worse? Would you even consider using non-lethal bullets against a home invader? Would love to hear from you on this subject.
If you use a firearm with non lethal ammo or intentions, the intruder will probably beat your ass, and take your weapon. Never point a weapon at something unless you intend to shoot it. Basic firearm safety. And never shoot to wound. If verbal warnings are not obeyed, if time allowed, end the threat to yourself and/or family. Be ready for the ramifications and have the correct mindset before being in a situation like this. If you are not willing to shoot to kill, do not produce a firearm. Nuff said.
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Why worry about non-lethal ammo? It is only good for practice. Hydra-Shoks, triple tap ( 2 to the body, one to the head – as I was trained), you know that bad guys wear ballistic body armor as well. If you want to intimidate someone, just rack a Remington 870, that gets their attention. But do you know for sure that they are alone? Too many soldiers have been killed by an enemy that they thought were dead. If it is worth a fight, it is worth fighting to win, there is no such thing as cheating in armed combat. If you cannot shoot to terminate, then turn around, drop your pants and hand them the Vaseline , because that is what you deserve.
There are a number of bullets made now that are designed to avoid over penetration. Standard military rounds (ball ammo) are designed to comply with Geneva convention. They will go through walls after the perp. The nonlethal ammo is a waste of your time and having it in your weapon is to make you “feel good”. If you have a problem with shooting real ammo at an intruder then sell your guns.
I would never load my firearm with something that is non-lethal. I personally use Magsafe Ammo for my house gun to prevent over penetration with my .44mag. For non-lethal carry I use the Kimber Pepper Blaster II. It renders them blind and burning for 45 mins.
Capture them, blindfold them, take them
To the nearest LGBT friendly bathroom toss em in and let Kaitlin work them
Over. True justice
There’s a place in PA that manufactures powdered metal bullets. They disintegrate on impact. Used by Air Marshals. There are different variations of them depending on your application. Some will penetrate, some don’t. I would be careful using non lethal. When they live to tell about it, you’re going to court to defend yourself. When they’re laying inside your home, you’ve got the benefit of the doubt.
My wife does not like to handle firearms. However I was raised hunting every season and my family kept every firearm in the house loaded and not locked up all four kids knew how to use them even the youngest. But we also knew that they DID NOT get touched without a parent unless I was there with the three younger ones and I absolutely had to (e.g. Home defense) our home defense weapon was a 12gauge pump with rock salt as first round. On another note both my girls who were raised mostly in the military life love shooting with me. I have several weapons loaded with nothing in the chamber and to get to should you come into my home without permission. Your warning is going to be the barking of my two overprotective dogs followed by the sound of a .40 cal round being chambered, if you are still there once the round is in the chamber you will cease to live. I have read comments about people saying that pulling the trigger on a human is the hardest thing you will ever do, I would have to say that knowing I could not save my family although I had every means necessary would be the hardest thing I had to do. But that is just my thinking.
Very well said, sir! I heartily agree my exception being the cocking of my S&W Governor revolver. I always set it to present two .410 shot shells first, followed by a .45 long colt and then two more .410’s and another .45 LC. . No doubt that should suffice. It will at least slow anyone down and provide time to get to my 14 specialty rounds in my Kel-Tec KSG. Any superman that makes it through that onslaught will have to face down my .45 ACP 1911s. Thank you for sharing your comment, I have never heard my feelings on how sorry I would be if I weren’t prepared to protect my family so eloquently expressed.
An attacker who is still breathing is still a threat.
What about Glaser safety bullets? It is a round
originally designed for sky marshals and will not
penetrate walls. They consist of a phenolic sphere nosecone and a load of snakeshot. When it hits the
projectile splays open and the phenolic spere directs them out to make a bloody and painful surface wound. There is virtually no chance of deep penetration and striking a crucial organ and causing bleedout and death.
I kind of like the other options with the understanding that an intruder is still alive is still a threat to you. Not only is he still breathing, but you are allowing him the option to find his way outdoors. Once outside, he can say anything once the cops get there. You just jeopardized YOUR freedom, not his. YOU could end up being arrested not him. You will also be sued by your perp for the incident HE caused. Flip side is that even if you kill him inside your home, you will more than likely be sued by his family because you took away their “bread winner”. “Poor little souls are gonna have to live on welfare for life now because of you”. Kill, but don’t overkill.
I have read all those comments, but I noticed not one asked the question are you capable of pulling the trigger when someone is looking at you? If not you shoud not have a gun available as you are putting your own life in danger as wll as anyone in the house. Pulling that trigger for the first time is the hardest thing you can do. Afterwards you will have to live with it. Just remember it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
I had an idea for a hard rubber bullet that had a needle sticking out the front that would hit hard and hurt making the perp think he was shot and it would also inject one or two types of chemicals one that would cause extreme pain like snake venom and the second one that was a very strong tranquilizer and hopefully render the perp unconscious.
Of course in a revolver at least you could have the first two like this then the rest real bullets.
WHEN ANYONE, ANYONE, STEPS ACROSS MY DOORWAY UNINVITED, HE/SHE HAS LEFT EVERY RIGHT THEY EVER THOUGHT THEY HAD ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DOOR.
THEY/HE/SHE, DIDN’T BREAK IN JUST TO GET A HAM SANDWICH AND NO ONE WILL GET INTO MY HOME MERELY BECAUSE THEY ARE A WANDERING, MIND WEARY VAGABOND,
TRUST ME ON THAT.
DON’T TREAD ON ME OR MINE.
You got that right
Amen to that!
Your choice, first and perhasps second round non lethal but needs to do more than just make a welt. You just might piss the intruder off and make them angrier and more wild. Third round onward deadly. Close quarters I’d suggest hollow points if nopt a shotgun unless you live in a dumbazz state like New Jersey where the last I checked hollow points were illegal. How stupid is that?
Hollow points are not illegal for home defense in N.J.
Do what you are capeable to do.
Calling 911 is not a option.
I have many weapons and most are locked in a safe, however I also have two weapons hidden in the house ready to use if necessary . Believe me I hope & pray I never have to use them to defend my family or myself, but believe this also I would use deadly force if someone breaks into my home. They are entering the house to rob, rape or kill not play !!!
An intruder(burglar) that breaks into a residence when someone is at home, is different than one who breaks into an unoccupied residence. He is a dangerous person, not afraid of confrontation or of harming you and your family. Don’t be afraid to use deadly physical force in this occasion,when you are in fear of your life or that a a loved one. P.D. Retired
Thou Shalt not kill ! No one in their right mind wants to kill ! Unless you are absolutely sure you have too and I can tell you,you have no time once in this position unless you have a backup.to cover you while perhaps reloading or repositioning yourself or covering for another?. If you are alone and involved in a gangland situation you know your situation and WHY ! However if you live in a situation as we do today,with the threat of Breakins and confiscation of your property. You better believe that is the Enemy. Never before has the United States Government come this far in putting the citizens of America in this situation. Robbery, YES the Carpetbaggers stretched the law. Most of us know we have been robbed continually by government ! Now they want to use Weapons and more than guns if they have too. When they do, We the people forgot or do not realize we the people are the government. Our second Amendment gives us the right to Arms to protect our family and lives. they the intruder now become the enemy. We have the right to kill all who have intent to destroy us in any way. So they come in force to overwhelm us and kill us if need be to satisfy their Satistic Desire. I personally will fight to the death ! As for my country and if they knowing they have every means to use to kill me, will do just that but I know where I am going after Death ! I will live even after Death ! You will find me at Bay Pines Cemetary or Bushnell? PS I will take out all that I am able too. ……Felix
Actually, the translation to English is not accurate. The accurate phrasing is THOU SHALT NOT MURDER. There is a big difference. Killing in self defense is not murder. Killing and the unborn is murder. I’d suggest looking up more on this issue.
Excuse me??? Hee, hee, hee.
This is the first blog I have read getting responses from mostly folks not trained in firearm usage. Great to see the comments from that viewpoint. Obviously not biased for or against guns. Our kids started shooting at age 5 and have never stopped. All have carry permits and carry. Apartment protected by ADT is great. But, remember, when seconds count, police are just minutes away.
Police MAY be minutes away depending on where you live. It’s a good idea to know the size of your police force on active duty and the size of the community they protect.
Is there truly a non-lethal round fired from a firearm? I am not asking for information, I am asking for deeper thought. A lot depends on the range from the firearm. Even blanks can kill at close range (remember the actor Jon-Erik Hexum killed 30 yrs ago). Plastic bullets can certainly be lethal at close range under the right (or wrong) circumstances. Bean bag rounds, especially from a shotgun at close range, can provide enough force to cause lethal injuries from cardiac dysrhythmias. And what is the legal take on shooting someone with a “non-lethal round”? A prosecutor might argue that there is questionable fear for one’s life if you do not feel the need to possibly kill the attacker/intruder. Indeed, shooting someone at all is hard to justify in my mind, unless there is truly a valid concern for the safety of self or another individual. The legal defense is of course to stop the attack; but if there is no attack, or significant threat thereof, any shooting may not be defensible. Castle Doctrine in many states does allow the owner/occupant to protect against an intruder, but is not a blanket of all protection. And it will have no protection against a civil suit. My personal philosophy is this. For concealed carry or at home I keep a good, commercially loaded self defense manstopper like Hydra-Shok, Golden Saber, Critical Defense, etc. If I feel the need to shoot, it will be for keeps. An intruder at home gets the option to leave by the closest exit, being advised of such, as well as being told the police are enroute (cell phone kept by the gun) and that I am armed. A move in any other direction is considered a threat and treated accordingly.
I do not advocate telling intruder you are armed. That may make him start shooting at you. In my home he will hear safety drop then nothing as Hydrashok hits him. I do not believe that such d bag deserves a warning.
A great app for a phone would be a sound app that sounds like a gun or a shotgun being cocked. You should have a gun(s) as well, but if it is out of reach this might buy you some time in the appropriate situation, especially if the intruder knows you are home. You have to make that decision quickly. Of course you must run these scenarios through your mind over and over again. It is very hard to react to pressure and terror like this without training, training, training. There is no one scenario to play out, you must be flexible on the fly and confidence in that training helps. Even to the point of knowing if and when to bail if the intruder seems to have gotten the drop on you. If you have a family all bail bets are off unless you can pin the intruder down to allow for escape iun any way. Make sure others know to call 911, you will probably be otherwise engaged. Two or more of you with firearms (and trained) make the odds overwhelming for that perp! Of course that training will teach you not to get in each other’s way.
Why isn’t anybody talking about powder activated Pepper spray double barrel pistol available from Kimber Mfg. non-lethal is my best choice. It shoots a 5 ft’ circle of pepper spray at 19 ft. This is not a squirt gun, it’s fast and will penetrate even a ski mask. anyway check it out they have two models, one two shot disposable, the other has replaceable double barrels, anyway check out their web site for more information. I own both models.
Raid wasp and hornet killer shoots a more accurate stream a greater distance than most pepper sprays and has more uses. It does cause permanent blindness in some cases. A 32 oz Louisville slugger in full swing has lots of wallop also but is hard to conceal and requires you to be closer to your attacker.
Incapacitate first, then if you find out they are a ‘liberal’-FINISH THEM OFF!
Cool, I like that.
The correct approach is shoot to stop. This is what Frontsight teaches. Too many of these comments sound like “oh good I get to shoot someone.”
many years ago i bought a 20 ga and cut off down to leagle lenth // i think it’s a good house gun // not much for hunting but i’ve never had to use it
I believe that the entire concept of non-lethal rounds for a private citizen defending themselves, and their loved ones is totally bogus!
I love the comment above: “I would not want to be caught using non-lethal force and find they were packing lethal force.”
If someone is found in your house uninvited, they are by definition “up to no good” and as far as I am concerned (as-well-as the law in every state I know of in the United States of America) one, being “in fear for their life (or the life of their family)” has every right (and I would daresay responsibility) to shoot to kill.
In this situation (even if someone feinted confusion, mental illness or being lost) you have no idea if that is the case or not, but chances are you came upon them unexpectedly after they broke in and they are “playing you for a sucker” until they can compromise your defensive/combat advantage by attempting to maneuver you into a position where their friends, who broke in with them, can disarm & defeat (read kill) you.
You are your family’s best first and last defense. Never compromise that defense by even considering “non-lethal” rounds in a home invasion situation – what on earth are you thinking?
Also, if you are not committed to using “deadly lethal force” to defend yourself or your loved ones, then you should certainly never have a firearm in the house in the first place!
If you are concerned about your aim, then practice, practice, practice until you are proficient, and if your wife is your backup, make sure that she shares your responsible attitude and knows how to shoot too. There are training facilities such as Front Sight that can help you in this regard.
If you are concerned about the bullet going through walls to injure a family member, then there are projectiles (such as a glaser safety slug, etc.) that can be used for this, however, standard combat ammunition (Federal Hydra-Shok, Federal HST, Hornady Critical Defense, etc.) should be suitable for your home defense needs.
I raised a child and had firearms in the house as my father did with me. So having children is no excuse whatsoever in leaving yourself vulnerable and undefended. There are modern quality biometric safes (not my favorite, but they work) that can be used to safeguard loaded firearms from prying fingers, however, we didn’t have any such thing in my family when I grew up (and neither did my child), and believe me, accessing dad’s firearms without permission was never, ever an option (even though I knew where both the gun and the ammunition were at all times from as early as I can remember).
In regards to the person’s comment regarding being okay with a slingshot or bow & arrow, but not with a firearm, I will say this: “killing in an act of self-defense is killing, no matter how it is done.” There is a saying, “don’t take a knife to a gun fight.” Again, if you are defending either your life or the life of those you love, whom you are the protector for, why would you choose a “weapon of lesser choice.” This reminds me of the introduction of (I believe) Scary Movie 3 where the blonde bimbet selects a banana as a weapon and chooses certain death instead of life. I recommend that you re-assess your values in this regard if you have others relying on you for their protection. If it is just you, well, then that is your choice.
A final comment, remember that a handgun (although convenient for concealability, ease of carry, and its advantage in confined spaces) is also the puniest firearm on the planet, and one’s defense (coupled with a strong light to turn darkness into light) is not relegated to something such as this. In close-quarters defense (especially for those who have not mastered a pistol), a shotgun (or other long-gun) may be a better choice, depending on one’s training and comfort level.
I live in the country, in NY State, where handguns are as easy to get as hen’s teeth. While walking in the woods, I encountered a man with a handgun. He pointed it at me and told me to “Get down and don’t scream”. Luckily, I had let my Golden Retriever accompany me off leash. He’d been in the brush, sniffing out a bird. He heard my scream and ran from the brush, attacked the gunman, and I grabbed the handgun which had fallen when the dog bit onto his arm. I aimed the gun, fired once at the attacker’s belt, wiped the gun, tossed it beside the gunman and ran to call the cops. I told them that I had found this man in the woods, obviously injured. I was questioned, but never charged. The man was a known rapist, out on parole. He was arrested for parole violation and sent back to complete the last 10 yrs. of a 20 year sentence.
I may be wrong but I understand that several state, New York and New Jersey come to mind require you to attempt to retreat from your home before using deadly force.
Not in PA. It’s called the Castle Doctrine. No one ousts me from my home. That’s total liberal dreamy cosmic muffin BS.
Why would you run from someone in your home where you have all the things you worked all your life to get? It could all be taken from you in an hour or destroyed. Some things are irreplaceable. I don’t want to start over. If they don’t care about the law then I don’t either.
VERY GOOD points about lessons in responsibility. Also the mention of having a shotgun is worth remembering–sometimes the sound alone might give an intruder a second thought, but stay vigilant and take nothing for granted. Thank you!
I have the judge, it goes with 45 colt or 4/10. First round is 7 1/2 target shot 4/10, second is #6, third is 000, forth is a1/8 oz slug, last is a 45 colt. The first two will hurt a lot but won’t kill. The spread on the small shot is about 8 feet at 12 feet distance.
Given a choice the .45 Colt would be my first preference. I have seen it stop a 300 pound wild hog in it’s tracks.
I feel, if someone breaks into your home, You have the right to protect yourself with any means available. I have a lot of weapons at home. I myself am a weapon. If you are a survivor, you need to be ready with anything and be able to turn anything into a weapon. The kitchen is great for weapons. If you keep a 22″ machete near, That is an excellent weapon. If someone breaks into your house and you chop them across the neck with your machete. That will most likely stop almost anybody. If you cut off there arm and chop the neck they will probably die within 5 mins. I’m a survivor, I will do anything necessary to save my family and my life, that’s how you should be. If the stores stop selling food what will you expect from your neighbors? They will turn into Zombies. I have seen people turn into Zombies and it’s not good to see. That’s why you have to also be drastic If you want to survive. I am not recommend anything to anybody nor am I telling anybody to do anything. But when the SHTF, I will be a survivor. I think people have to do what ever it takes if you want to be a survivor. If i sound drastic i’m sorry, but just think about the worst scenario and what would you do? Just imagine total chaos, No police, no phone, just people coming to steel anything and everything you have, That’s you or them? When you find your answer, I might not be so Drastic.
I do not to think of myself as a survivor, someone who is attacked and lives but is paralyzed for life is a survivor. I am a victor who WILL do what is necessary to not survive but be victorious and protect both my families and my own life.
A paint ball gun can overwhelm an intruder. Some can fire up to 100 or more shots very quickly. It would be nice if you could get paint balls containing something more painful to the intruder than just paint. Even a vital dye to mark him for a few days like banks use. A sticky substance that turns into something like spider web… open to ideas..
The Feral Government has pepper spray paint balls, but they are much too expensive for mere peons to obtain.
Freeze some paintballs
Huh? Are you going to retrieve them from the fridge during attack? They don’t stay frozen long in the chamber.
OC paint balls are available to law enforcement.
I would not want to be caught using non-lethal force and find they were packing lethal force.
That’s a good point!
EXCELLENT point!!!
I am a senior with health issues. I live alone, except for 2 cats and 1 little and 1medium sized dog. She will on command go for what is between a man’s legs if he were to attack me. She is my security system. However, i do own a Glock 19 and I am a very good shot. I’m not afraid to use it.
Makr sure you are good at shooting between the legs as well. Nothing like denutification by flying round. Problematic if your intruder is a female, but similar effect. If you’ve got a bead on that area, folks do not like to lose their pleasure equipment. Best done with a shotgun, your choice of shot, bag, etc.
I really didn’t know you could get non lethal ammo, but that’s what I’m doin also, as the gentleman said he does, first round, non l eathal, if I fire again! Well that’s all folks!!
I have used bird shot as my first round for years. My wife keeps bird shot in hers when walking the dog. She has had to use it more than once when coming across a snake, which does happen out here in the desert once in a great while.
I have a 6 year old son in my home so right now a loaded firearm is not an option. I do have other lethal and non-lethal means of dealing with intruders though. I wouldn’t advise anyone living in Southern California of shooting an intruder though. I made that mistake back in 1974 when a known rapist kicked my front door off the hinges and entered my apartment with the intent of raping my wife before killing her, the guy told me this just before I gave him both barrels of 12GA 3″ magnum 00 buckshot to the mid section. I thought “end of problem”. The cops arrested me for 1ST degree murder. I was tried and the jury found me not guilty and I left the state a month later. I have been back for visits because my dad still lives there but I won’t live there again!
Cops are usually much more dangerous than any criminal.
Call 911 and get a armed psychopath delivered to your door.
That’s quite a generalization— perhaps based on your experience and most unfortunate. There are good apples and bad apples on every tree, MOSTLY GOOD. We always find what we’re looking for.
Sorry but you break into my house and i have the chance you are going to pay the ultimate price me and my family always come first 2 always loaded guns and family knows how to use them
I live in an apartment by myself with only one door and a patio window. The patio window is locked and protected by ADT as well as the front door. I have a 90 grain bullets that are frarmented for my 9mm handgun. That means they do not expand until they come into contact with soft tissue. If they hit a wall or other obstruction, they fragment into pieces. They will not richochet. I would hate to kill or maim a person, but if it comes down to my life against theirs, I will shoot to protect my life. It would be nice to be able to read an intruder’s mind to tell if they are mentally incapable and do not know where they are or if the intruder is a person bent on violence towards whomever is in the home. I will always shoot to protect my life. If you don’t, you are just digging a grave for yourself.
WOW!! I have learned so much here!! I have been reading f some of these aloud to my older children. It has been our concern how to stay protected but not leave a loaded weapon around; we have small boys in the home, so this is a real concern. I likely will sound stupid, but… Better to ask a dumb question then not to ask at all, so here goes…. 1) What is the best way of keeping fire arms handy for our safety, 2) How do our children protect themselves, 3) How do we have the fire arms there, with easy access, without having them also easily accessible to the ‘bad guy’, 4) How to we protect our family with loaded fire arms or weapons with ammo in close proximity, without undo danger of little boys playing and possibly getting their hands on them and hurting themselves or others, 5) What is the rule if our children do shoot someone else- a. In playing OR b. In defending our home(one of our older teens)?? We have USCCA, does that cover only the adults or does that cover children as well; not to sound less informed, but… My his husband purchased the membership, does it correctly cover both of us, as husband & wife? Does it cover out he, as in if there was another adult in our home, when we were not home, & they were responsible for our children & the home, would they be covered under our policy? OR could we still end up liable?? Please advise, if you know the legally accurate answer. Thank you for anyone who can answer the other above questions??
Melanie. I don’t truck with uninformed persons having access to guns – no matter what the age. If you want to have guns in your home (even unloaded and locked in a cabinet) your children (and YOU) need to have full firearm training. I would recommend even to the competitive level. You want to kids to think of the guns as a tool and not as a shiney symbol of power. I also believe that until their brains are fully developed (between age 18-20) that children *cannot* make sound choices about using lethal force. They can. not. do it. OK?
Also you are paying good money for that Concealed Carry, aren’t you? They owe you a full and clear explanation of what you are paying for. Do not be too intimidated to demand a full understanding of your purchase straight from them.
Professional training for everyone is always the best start. Not only will everyone learn to properly handle firearms, but also to store them. In addition, it is a great family event that all seem to love participating in.
I love the idea of families doing this together for so many reasons, and competitions really level up the fun. Few things I have done for my family have been so worthwhile and brought us closer. Now training grandkids and they are having a blast while learning how to safely and properly being around firearms. 8 year old especially likes her pink Savage 22!
Melanie, couple of suggestions for you. When my children were young I kept a Remington 870 12 ga with a magazine extension with the magazine loaded so all that was necessary was to pump it once, an unmistakable sound. I also kept my 1911 .45 auto with a loaded magazine but no round in the chamber. Small fingers and hands could not rack the slide to chamber a round but I could. The shotgun saved my ass the night a parolee with a stolen .38 tried to kill me cause I interrupted his robbery of my neighbors. For a shotgun you might find a 20 ga effective with less recoil. As for a pistol, I like 1911 .45s but they require lots of practice to use effectively and safely. The “slide Rack” drill works on any semiauto handgun, the larger the caliber the stiffer the action, as a general rule. I recommend avoiding trigger locks cause I do not want to be frantically searching for the key while some thug is beating down my front door. There are several small pistol safes on the market with biometric palm sensors that might fit your needs. I keep shotgun in closet and .45 on nightstand. .45 is my carry gun and is always has round chambered, the original point and click interface. Here in Texas person who allows child or mentally incompetent to achieve access to a firearm and harm someone can and will be charged with said crime. I hope
Melanie, I hope I passed some useful information on to you. Whatever direction you take they all require practice and lots of it. I was raised by an old paratrooper and guns were a part of life so my training and comfort level were from an early age. I strongly suggest you seek out professional training. I teach that the first rule of a gunfight is do not get in one. Second rule is bring your head, your brain is your deadliest weapon. Also, I do not shoot to kill. I shoot so my family and I can stay alive. Good luck
Melanie, and others: How to keep children safe with a handgun available? Simple. Have a semi-auto handgun of at least 380 cal. Load the clip but DO NOT chamber a round. A small child does not have enough strength to rack a round into the chamber.
My 9 mm is too difficult to for my adult daughter to rack.
It would be great if you could get links to the vendors or manufacturers of the 5 non-lethal loads described which show the effects of each of their products much the same way we see the effects of a live taser test.
I saw an x-ray of a Palestinian youth hit in the head with a rubber bullet. It stopped against the back of his skull after passing through the brain, in his case non lethal was lethal.
Another consideration is “Snake Load”. Basically, a round with bird shot in a plastic slug. Not really an option for most semi-autos but great in a revolver. I can pop that first round into a wall, the floor or the intruder without concern for collateral damage – no penetrating power. My second round is lethal. It is very unlikely that a BB will hit anywhere that could cause a lethal result.
That first non lethal round that you shoot may be your only round that you get to shoot. Load it with a lethal round first and then we’ll talk about the ramifications later. Anyone with a little therapy can get over guilt but they can’t get over dead.
Wasp spray to the eyes. can be sprayed for 30 Feet and the pain an inability to see is an advantage to the home owner.
I would be careful about spreading the myth about wasp spray. Some studies have shown that it is not as an effective incapicatant as OC (Oleeocapsicum)pepper spray. I’d trust my personal protection to something like “Inferno” over wasp spray any day.
I trust my personal protection to John Browning and the 1911 of his design.
For my own personal reasons, I do not own a firearm. However, I have no problem with a crossbow or a wrist rocket.
A wrist rocket with a scattering of hex nuts can be very painful. If you aim for the face, it can do nasty non lethal damage.
Sorry buy you won’t stop an intruder with a slingshot I the middle of the night when it’s dark
where would one acquire such ammonition?
Ryte necks-door to the skool that teeches speling!!! ;o)
i have both the first round is non lethal but # 2 you are dead in my revolver and in my shotgun if the first one doesn’t stop them number two will
A second person account of lethal responce.. A coworker on coming home entering by front door surprised three men exiting by rear door stealing 2 of his 3 choppers from inside his home —grabbing a 12 ga. from wall mount by the door shot the leg off the last man out the door .. the police who responded told him if the leg had fallen outside the door he would have been arrested. his bikes were recovered from out of state . He was late for work that day…
No mention of the robbers being a threat to the life of the home owner, in fact, they were fleeing it seems. My state is gun friendly and politically conservative, but from those facts, you would be charged with a crime and face a civil suit, not use deadly force over property alone or shoot fleeing crooks.
I’m 93 years of age. Served my beloved America,
during WW II. Have a Pistol License Permit, and know how to use them. Please “Do Not Tread On Me”
Being a retried cop, I am trained to kill. Wounded is for cowards. And I don’t want to spend my entire life being sued by the asshole who breaks into my home.
The intruder will be met with lethal force, to insure the criminal will not sue, and to permanently prevent the person from preying on someone unarmed.
My mind was already made up. My gun is loaded with real bullets and I know how to use it.
As a fast draw competitor, I use wax bullets (45 cal. powered by a 210 shotgun primer. they will go through a 1/8 sheet of plywood @ 8 ft. I have been shot in the wrist with one by a newbie to the sport. It went to the bone was very painful. & as I joked “It will kill you &cure you at same time” The heat cauterized the wound & stopped the bleeding. A shot to the temple , i n the eye or mouth can KILL . I do carry glazers in my protection weapon under 2 regular loads as glazers are deadly almost ANY where on the body. As a officer I was told “shoot to kill because a dead man can’t sue & it’s better to see a family member on the stand instead of a wounded man in a wheelchair or on crutches
I have an 11 year old who is well trained, with and around firearms. Never the less, loaded unlocked guns in the house are certainly a concern. We have three matching full frame semi auto 40 S&W handguns in different places throughout our house. I have seven of the exact same gun, and my wife son and I are all very comfortable with it. The three in the house are loaded the same way. They are in soft holsters, loaded clip, slide open. The first round is a rubber bullet with a light powder charge, second is rubber bullet with a full charge, third is #9 shot (I can’t make 3 cycle reliably), the fourth through fifteenth rounds are all Sierra JHP bullets that will go through a coat before fragmenting. I don’t want to injure my family, but we wil stop any intruder.
I purchased a taser from the taser company. It’s the same as the law enforcement departments use the only difference is you cannot apply the charge as long as the law enforcement model.
It seems that if the “Law Enforcement Models had a little less JUICE”, perhaps not as many deaths would occur from the police use of these devices. In addition to the extra time they can put out a charge,
we also can’t keep 2 officers from shooting1 man with
his taser which adds to the chance of a,
Lethal Outcome?
The less than lethal round for the intruder is the visual of looking down the barrel of my gun after I order him to freeze, and before I am forced to fire.
well I know the gov’t has some mighty interesting non lethal…. they have a long distance taser, just a pure spark of energy that can incapacitate you,, right there,,, The tasers today that are being used by police , do not have the military capabilities. That is No wires..just pure energy.
Pulses that can knock you over and voice to skull technology,,, google The STAR system acoustics,, and read the fine print,, this device can communicate underneath rubble, with only one person having the device, I believe it is used for earthquake victims under rubble and used for harassment purposes,, they can hear what the person is saying and have a two way conversation. , This is also used by the local police to harass people in their homes… This goes without saying,,, through walls. Read critically .
check it out and read the fine print..
The whole frame of the conversation should be changed . Because to solve the problem the Intruder needs to think is this worth losing my life over . The media and the socialist have got to define the conversation. We need to think and change the tone and the framework . No one sane wants to kill some one . Until the criminals are more afraid of us than the other way around nothing will change . And no bleeding heart , hypothetical , sensationalist that make money off of tragedy will go there .
Hi Frank. both my wife and I have 357mags. Hers is loaded with 38s and mine is loaded with 357hp’s. Does that answer your question?
I would prefer to use a non-lethal weapon for an intruder in my house. As you said, if one kills a person, that cannot be undone. I think I would use wax bullets. Fortunately, I have not had an intruder when I was at home. I have had intruders in Ecuador when I was away from home for two weeks and evidently someone saw me leave very early in the morning wearing a coat and with luggage. I learned that my house and gate remained open for eleven days until a neighbor returned from vacation, discovered the problem, and called the police who drilled a small hole in my front door and put a lock on it.
YOU GAVE ME SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT. I FEEL THAT THE RUBBER, WAX, PLASTIC AND BEAN BAG WOULD ONLY STUN AN INTRUDER AND MAKE THEM ANGRY. THE ELECTRIC BULLET (HAVE NOT HEARD OF THESE BEFORE) WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE A
METHOD OF STOPPING INTRUDERS COLD.
the trouble with trying less lethal is that unless you have someone with you who is prepared to go lethal if your less lethal doesn’t work is not likely to be an option, drugged, drunk or mental issues can make anything of going with lethal force a big mistake. LEO has the ability to have a back up option ready, you won’t. Another thing to consider is stopping the threat is your goal and if you have someone on say PCP nothing can do that but overwhelming firepower as quick as you can acquire a target as they have no ability to feel or recognize pain only a system failure will stop that kind of threat. Consider too that more and more home invasions are by gang and drug related people who see you as a weak soft target for whatever they want. I say this to get you thinking about worst case and how you must respond for the safety of yourself and your family. It is a terrible thing to have to take a life I know from experience but it is far worse to do too little in the mistaken impression that you can scare them off without having to actually hurt them.
As of now I would use only lethal weapon and ammo as I am a widow. However if I were to remarry, i would like to use non lethal ammo, to start. In a crisis situation when our entire system has broken down (very likely) I would go back to lethal ammo. So depends on the situation at the time.
how about tear gas for control?
If you shoot someone with rubber bullets in the middle of the night, and the person is not incapacitated but runs off, he might go somewhere and lick his wounds, and plan on revenge. Some criminals have huge egos. Whether we like it or not, race is always going to be a factor. You can depend on the media distorting the facts to fit their agenda, and no-one wants his/her personal identity to be a public target of racial hatred. I have thought about this a lot. What to do if I shot someone dead in the middle of the night, and he happens to be black. Get rid of the body or leave it there on the floor & call 911. I totally do not trust my government to do the right thing, and I do live in California. All it takes is one left wing D.A. out for publicity and running for higher office to ruin your life, and then a jury dominated by blacks. I do not have any answers that I would want to make public. I did not create this environment. I do have to deal with it.
Very funny :)
It is not my primary intention to take another persons life. However if you come into my home unannounced I will meet u with force. That force is regulated by your threat to me. When I shoot I shoot to elemenate the threat.
Also as my DI Said a dead man doesn’t talk twice, and there is only one side of the story. YOURS.
This goes along with the statement I heard that police say when considering wounding the suspect or hitting center-mass to kill, “It’s better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.”
That is a great saying. I like it.
…and here is another (very true!) one for Brian, Steve & Frank!
Act first, questions later…Dead men DON’T tell lies… ;)
Have both available and use appropriately. Salt bullets may also be an alternative approach to defending one self or family. Myself I believe I would use lethal force. Also , don’t shoot in the direction of family, pets, or self. Large dog could help ward off intruders.
Let me add …. we should stick up for our true beliefs. Don’t cave in to seemingly easier ways out. Some will pay the ultimate price so the masses of like-minded people and generations to come will carry on the freedom that we love and deserve.,
STAND FOR SOMETHING OR YOU WILL FALL FOR ANYTHING ! !
Will 1 live alone, 1 am a senior 1 never lock my door. 1 have had people come in to my apartment at midnight, as late as 3;00 AM, 1 have a Plastic Gun w/.177 cal B.B. works grate don’t kill no one
will leave a bump on them. It’s scar most, just the sight of it. Also have A 357 mag. just in case.
IN FLORIDA – Gun law is based on STAND YOUR GROUND (as you probably know). OK. So if your house is broken in to, You’re better off with a CLEAN KILL – the would-be burglar, if left alive, can still sue you.
If you use CONCEALED CARRY, You’ll be going to court to PROVE just cause (and that your life was threatened). Same deal – SHOOT TO KILL. Fire a warning shot? still – enjoy your trial. Wound or “rubber bullet” a perp, Again a trial.
No sure why you suggest being so nice when life & death are being considered – You don’t know your laws very well.
Paint ball pistol presents a large hole and can cause serious pain to a bad guy. Mine will hold 10 and can be fired very fast.
What about a can of hornet spray? The ones we use sprat about 20 feet.
My solution is a short barreled .410 pump shotgun. The sound of chambering that first round is pretty intimidating. My first 2 rounds in the magazine are light weight bird shot. Very lethal if you have to shoot an attacker at close range, but unlikely to kill if you have to fire a distinct warning beyond 10 yards. The next 2 rounds are buck shot. If a drug crazed invader fights through the first 2 rounds, then it is all over. An added advantage is that these rounds, certainly the first 2, will probably not penetrate a normal sheetrock wall and endanger family members in other rooms. I have also mounted a tactical light on the barrel with a switch on the slide pistol grip so that I can illuminate a target before pulling the trigger to be sure of what I am shooting in the dark. The gun shoots to the center of the light. The light itself is blinding and could discourage a weak hearted criminal.
This, to me sounds perfect. The light is great, it will temporarily startle someone not expecting it, and as you say you can see what you’re shooting at. And the birdshot/buckshot idea is genius. If the first two don’t do it, the second one will. I like it.
An intruder may very well shoot at a light to disable it. I want to see my target too, but my plan is to have a bright light focused on the bedroom door coming from a wall across from the door. The switch is beside my bed on the side away from the door. I’m behind my bed with the shotgun and will be able to identify the target and make a shoot/no shoot decision. I agree with “staged” shot … non-lethal –> birdshot –> #1 buck (more lethal than 000 buck).
ok by me,but have one with lethal bullets too.
I think you are better off going lethal and taking your chances with the authorities. I would rather defend myself against a dead man in court, rather than a live one. At least dead men can’t lie.
As a mother whose 20 year old son was murdered by an hostile homeowner while attempting to siphon gas, I was pleased to see you have presented non-lethal possibilities and the thinking behind the sanity of using such. Its not only criminals we have to worry about, we have to be fearful of angry haters and people who will lie about murdering someone using false accusations of self-defense. He could have simply fired a warning shot, instead my son died and the homeowner is serving 50 to life in prison because he clearly wanted to kill a person over a little gasoline!! Most police don’t condone vigilantism or else they are just another person with an ignorant opinion to which we have sadly, no shortage of. It is my opinion and judging by the many comments of people who want to kill, that this is the greater possibility and threat to innocent people everywhere. I don’t care how great a person you think you are, too many people can’t be trusted to do the right thing period!!
for every story like yours I can show you 10 that saved someone with the use of a gun
First someone stole gas from my truck, then someone broke into my garage. Next someone stole my lawn ornaments. Someone took part of my nativity set. Then someone broke into my home when I wasn’t home. Then someone stole a tire off my pickup. All these thieves just took a little bit from a hard working person, because they were too lazy to get it the right way. Sorry about your son. He was an /ss for stealing and there is no excuse for his actions. He didn’t deserve to die, but what did he deserve. He wasn’t a “good” boy. He was a common thief. Shame on him and may God have mercy on him for what he inspired the other guy to do.
I so ages with you Scott!!! If he was such a “good boy” why was he stealing?? At todays gas prices that could be a major cost.. Also if that person had filled his tank incase of an emergency such as lady going into labor or having a very sick person in the house and when he needed the car “no gas” what then?? It could mean a life or death situation..
Scott, you are a heartless, judgmental a-hole. I would say more but seriously question your ability to comprehend it.
Make sure you live in state like PA or NC or SC & others with a strong ‘Castle Doctrine’ that ACTUALLY do protect you wherever you have a legal right to be. I would use actual ammunition with a shot to incapacitate the individual, the 1st shot not necessarily a lethal one unless warrantied by the situation. Buy a weapon that YOU can shoot accurately, Too much weapon that you cannot control &/or be accurate with is no good–if possible, ask to shoot weapons of friends/relatives that you are likely to consider. With my close supervision, I let others at the shooting range try some of mine, especially if I notice that what they have is totally wrong for them. Just the other day a person brought a couple of his older & handicapped (husband & wife) relatives to try out their brand new, never fired ultralight .380 ACP–the results were scary & a disaster.I told them why their very good handgun was absolutely the wrong choice for THEM & had them fire 2 of my own guns that would be better choices for them. Results?, all shots on target without the gun being pointed in all the wrong directions. Get the correct gun for YOU, practice safe handling, practice accurate shooting, use the correct ammo for self defense & be prepared. I also belong to the USCCA for insurance to pay legal fees if needed.
I( am a believer of all that has been said and I wish I could protect my family in that way< but I don't have the resources to do it…
I am a Vietnam veteran that served from 1967-1969, and know the dangers that are a head..
I might consider putting a couple of less than lethal rounds in my 45 to save the criminal’s life, but if I have to pull the trigger more than twice they’re gonna die before I do
There’s really no such thing as non-lethal the correct term should be less lethal.
My self I have aquirred a paintball marker and some less lethal rounds, because not every situation calls for lethal force, I found the hottest and hardest hitting 68cal. projectiles available, from Ghost chili pepper balls that are 15 X hotter than a standard pepperball, I also aqirred some 98 grain, solid, 6.6 gram, 68cal. MB68P breaker balls, twice the weight and hitting power than anything eles on the market. with 30 to 45 foot pounds of kenetic energy to tarket these are true man stopper depending on shot placement.
Non-lethal sounds good for encounters that occur away from home. Afterwards you can drive away leaving your attacker in pain but alive. But the legal problems resulting from injuries sustained at your home may dictate that if a gun is involved, real ammo needs to be used. Just a thought.
These r so delicious. I may look in to these ,especially the electric ones. At the present time i use regular ones but they never want to try to steal when im around. Most thieves r ppl who know u and know your working hours and etc.
I’ve been trying to decide going with lethal or non. Many years ago I had gone bowling leaving my husband and 2&4 yr old girls home. We lived on a semi Main Street and about 11 pm some guy was pounding on the door. My husband didn’t know him so told him through the door he had the wrong house. The man was apparently on drugs alcohol or both and would not go. My husband had called the police while their through the door was going on. There was a window next to the door on the porch and the guy decided he was coming in and broke the glass at which point my husband grabbed the only thing available- we had no weapons-he grabbed his golf clubs and proceeded to wail on him as he tried to come through the window at which time the police showed up they guy ran but the police caught him. I have no doubt in my mind if the police had not gotten there when they did my husband would have killed him by club. My husband had a disability but had come up on the street and knew it was either the guy or him and knew you use whatever you had available to you at the time. So I guess my point is there are a number of lethal things other than firearms. Myself I’m now a woman nearing 70 now with disabilities and I need to consider something that will allow me to get away safely. I like the wasp spray idea though.
Anyone on or near your property that is thought to be a serious threat to you or a member of the family can be taken out. They do not have to be in your house but they do have to present a clear and dangerous threat. You have to be prepared to kill the offender. A gun is an instrument of death not torture. If you can’t kill the intruder, then just mace him with a 20 foot hornet spray and kick him in the throat when he’s down. Then you can mail a post card to the police.
I think the non-lethal bullets are a great idea. 1st round is non-lethal and the second is a lethal, just in case. Maybe rotate every other.
I don’t have any qualms about killing ANYONE forcing their way into my home or threatening my own or my family’s safety. I totally intend to shoot to kill, if they come in my home their intention is already known and I will not hesitate, period!
I have considered non-lethal amo but have no idea of the cost or where to get it
Charlie Daniels made a song, Simple Man. To paraphrase “ya try and knock down my door and, there will be a 12 ga. shot gun on the other side. Leave me alone and I’ll leave you alone!
Well if you want to give someone a chance, make the first 2 rounds of your 45 the rubber bullets, every thing else live, doubble tap the first two, after that they can pick up the person off the floor.
I suppose the ‘Home Alone Items’ would work on a criminal who may have just killed your neighbors.
I have had NO experience with non-lethal bullets and I would be interested in finding out more about the different bullets.
A lot of legal problems with injuring a criminal especially in the back because the law will say that the person was trying to get away. I know of a New Jersey man in his 70’s who shot an intruder in the back of the leg. The criminal sued him, he lost his house and the older gent served an automatic 5 years for a unregistered gun crime. After 5 years he got out and died a pauper 2 years later. The chances of it being a lost retarded person 2:00 in the morning is BS and you can bet that a criminal that breaks into a house with knowing people are there for sure is carrying a weapon. In conclusion, the risk of killing a criminal quickly as possible with any means possible would increase the chances of you and your family coming out of it safely. Worst case scenario if you have to face legal issues at least you and yours are alive. I REST MY CASE !
I live alone, so I have no worries about hurting another member of my family.
As to the question of the mentally handicapped, the intoxicated or the unarmed teenager under the influence of bad companions; sorry, but they just won the Darwin Award. I didn’t spend 63 years working hard to earn my home and the privacy that come along with it so I could worry over the bad decisions of morons…
I am a widower so am not overly concerned about wall penetration other than the real possibility of a round nicking an electrical wire and eventually starting a fire (a definite possibility). I would consider a no-lethal round anyway if I could be convinced that it would absolutely put the intruder on the ground for a few minutes. I have no qualms about having to shoot him several times until the police arrive. My state has the castle doctrine so I have the right to defend my home. It is more a matter of having to clean up the mess if I bloody some idiot. On the other hand…, what are the ramifications of having to deal with this gentleman again after he gets released from jail. Sometimes it is better to end the confrontation once and for all while I have the advantage. Is there a study of how many times the ‘ Bird ‘ flies back into your life if you don’t kill him the first time?
A police officer once told me that if you are in a home invasion situation to follow three rules: #1 Tell them you are armed and to leave or you will shoot. Warn them more than once if you have the chance. However, the opportunity to do this is not usually present. Many die in their sleep. #2 If they threaten the lives of your family and you do decide to shoot, shoot to kill or they will sue you and take everything. You better make sure they do not live through it. Unjust as it may seem, they have rights to sue you for their injuries. Police Officer’s words, not mine. That being said, have fun with your bean bag rounds and be prepared for a possible law suit. Especially if it injures their special purpose. #3 Make sure they are IN YOUR HOUSE before you shoot. If they are only on your property and you shoot, then you will be the one who ends up in jail. Even shooting a warning shot in the air, you will end up with charges for Unlawful Use of a Weapon. Property invasions do not count. All they have to do is make up a story that they were looking for their lost kitty. They MUST be in your home and a threat to your family. Having camera in your home and on your property is the only sure way to catch them and charge them in court. But if you are dead, then none of this will matter. So I do not sympathize with criminals who are intent on hurting my family. I save the rubber bullets and bean bags for Halloween decorations.
I suggest four or five of each type!!!!
North Carolina in December of 2012 passed a home protection law. Several other states have
a similar law. This enables the occupants of the home to use deadly force if anyone enters
your home, business, vehicle, motorcoach, motel room, tent, camper, boat. The law assumes
that anyone entering these places with out permission is going to do harm. The law also
does not allow any civil charges in the event of injury or death. I suggest that families have
a plan of action in the event of such entry. A signal that is given to make sure that everyone
stays in their room. A cell phone should be used in dialing 911 and placed on speaker phone.
The cell phone should be place on a table and commands should be screamed at the individual
warning that you have a weapon and will shoot. This message will be recorded by the 911
worker. The law allows deadly force without criminal or civil action.
What about flare guns. Can be purchased at a boat supply. Close range like house or car. No registration. And can be used for emergency help. ? C
I envision the Fire Dept. at your house some day. Lose the flare gun and get a real one.
I use Glasser Safety Slugs or similar in all my home defense weapons or I should say, all my weapons while in my home. These are less likely to penetrate walls and bodies and harm unintended people. I have kids and close neighbors I wouldnt wont to unintentionally hurt someone.
Any of the methods will probably generate a lawsuit that could clean you out of your house and home! The best thing is to make sure you live near a river…….
this country’s laws are ridiculous. If a burglar cuts his arm while breaking a window trying to get into your house, they can turn around and sue you, and your insurance company for pain and suffering caused by the injury. Same goes if you shoot them with lethal, or less than lethal rounds. If they survive their injuries they’ll sue you. If they don’t, their family will sue you. What ever happened to the old saying “Crime doesn’t pay”? The Occupier’s Liability Act of 1984 was passed by congress, which gave criminals a payday. I see no reason why this law should have ever been passed. A country full of idiotic lawmakers, making idiotic laws.
@John Desrosiers;
I work for 1 of the largest Property Casualty insurance companies in the nation. There would only be pay out from the insurance company if the homeowner were found negligent. Also, the intruder does not have the homeowner’s permission to be there so it would trespassing and the insurance company would not pay out for their injuries while trying to break into and insured’s home.
As a former claim adjuster for an insurance company,
I can tell you that the feelings of sympathy that a crippled intruder can evoke from a jury, may distort their findings completely.
The cost to support a disabled burglar, over a lifetime, is far greater than paying for their funeral; you as the shooter, may be held accountable in the jury’s mind and judged accordingly.
If someone breaks into your house, don’t be fooled into thinking that mercy will translate into justice; defend yourself and your family.
How about a strong paintball marker with hard rubber balls or paintballs filled with pepper spray?On places to hide weapons, the enemy solicits your information and knows where to look when they come, and they will come. Why do you think they are building concentration camps all over the country? Not to sound ungrateful for what you are doing, but how do we know that you are not one of them?
Jon, do you happen to know where these “concentration camps” are? I’d like to see one.
I live in the UK where we’re not allowed to say “Boo” to a Goose! let alone carry or use any kind of weapon at all. However, common items in public places are fire extinguishers and I have several around my house. Used with aggression and surprise (that you’re fighting back!) the spray can disorient and disable for a couple of seconds from a ‘safe’ distance while you decide on ‘fight or flight’. Flight is obvious, fight is get in and hit them with the extinguisher while they’re blinded and or choking on the spray. I work with the public in confined spaces (I’m a Train Driver) and years ago disarmed a man who was threatening passengers with a knife using an on board fire extinguisher in this way (I later learnt he was mentally retarded). Of course living in the bleeding heart UK I only avoided prosecution thanks to one of the passengers being a Lawyer, but I was arrested.
I only add this as British Citizens have been stealthily, relentlessly disarmed and brainwashed against firearms since the end of WW1 and it’s good to have a plan B.
I would prefer the option to shoot anyone threatening harm in any scenario but this is denied to me by virtue of the laws of the land of my birth. “By the people, for the people” not here mate!
I think you had better rethink what you are saying. Several of the nonlethal rounds you mention are really dangerous as they can kill.
Plastic bullets and wax bullets can kill as it really does not take much to penetrate the human body.
If an intruder comes into your house they do not mean well. Adults or teenagera know right from wrong. They also know that people could have home protection as our police can not protect us.
What is the difference a club or a bullet they all can kill depending on whose hands the weapon is in yours or theres.
I would much rather be safe than sorry or should I say DEAD
Hey Frank, I thought long and hard about making this comment. In 1966 I was 13 years old and a man came into my mom and dads house. I was there by myself and the next thing he knew I had my dads M1 Carbine with a 15 round clip in and chambered a round when we came eye to eye. I knew the man and he started toward me and I shot him through the leg. He ran out the back door and I shot again not hitting him this time, but he fell out into the yard screaming and rolling around. The County Sherrif came to the house and talked to me, this was after I had lost my supper and anything else on my stomach. They hauled him off in the Hearst, they didn’t have Ambulances then. Nothing was done other than my dad wanting to finish him off for the threat of hurting me. About 3 months later a man not far from our house shot him with both barrels in the face about 6 feet away. Nothing was done about that either because of his prior breakins and yard thiefs. Now days are a lot different, people kicking down doors and rushing in on the people there. That happens a lot in the next town from us. But the big thing is the Meth and other drugs, these people can’t be put down with non-lethal rounds. Most of them don’t even know where they are, just that they want your meds, money, items in your house and very possible your life. I said I hope and pray I never have to shoot another person, but there would be no hesitation on my part. My family is grown but all including my wife have been trained by me in case of a break in. You have to use the most lethal force you have to stop the Perp at all cost. My slogan is RSVP or RIP and my wife came up with that one. It is either RSVP (repondez sil vous plait)- by “Invitation” or “Rest In Peace” !!!!
Steve, what State do you live in?
I have always thought just “maim” the guy, but the Sheriff’s Deputy who helped train me, told me first thing, IF you FEEL threatened enough to pull your gun on someone, coming into your home….SHOOT TO KILL! And that said, you also have to consider, that even when you shoot (sometimes several “hits”) target will still advance on you……UNLESS you strike just a couple of “instant” drop spots, there is that time window, that he will still be coming!!
My fear is that, IF/WHEN that moment were to come, you NEVER know what your knee-jerk reaction will be….SOME FREEZE! I hope I am not one to do that, LOL!!
I have used sinterfire amunnition. It performs well. No ricochet or bullets going through walls. And it is American made!
The locked door they break in to get into my home is there for their protection, not mine!
How about a potato gun?
I keep a can of that line paint next to my bed for defending my family. That way I can have the line traced around the body of the intruder before the cops get here. Anything I can do to help my local police force, I’ll do.
Sign on my doors reads Protected by 357.
Protection of my family is first and foermost.
Their family may sue but the intruder will not
how about rock salt shot shells (like Granny used to use).
In Texas, I belong to a group named Texas Law Shield. If I use a weapon, I call them, 24/7/365 and they respond with advice on handling the immediate situation and will defend me in court, if it comes to that.
I will not hesitate to waste an intruder who breaks into my house, especially at night. If he is mentally deranged, so be it. He will never do it again.
While I have other guns, for home defense I prefer my plain jane revolver with Standard “Self Defense” Ammo. If I ever have to kill an intruder and go to court; I want to be able to say it was with a plain revolver with self defense ammo and it was only used for self defense. More likely to get off than with an AR-15 or a custom .45 with frag bullets. Juries are funny like that.
I realize my comments are a bit more than the lethal non lethal topic, but I see a number of comments, and there are important points to cover.
First, if you have not discussed personal protection and home defense with your local police, I highly advise it. I have discussed this issue with the federal security guards, and the police commander in my area, and we are on the same page. According to the laws in our state Unauthorized entry into your residence with a weapon is grounds for using lethal force, if you have no other alternatives. That is a big IF.
I grew up learning gun safety, but I still take the courses. I recommend before owning a gun of any kind taking a few courses on their use, and the decision of when to fire and not fire. As I work with the federal government, we are required to take training on these situations. “Active Shooter” is one course that teaches you the survival techniques you will require if you are faced with a use of lethal force in any situation (home, office, outdoors…etc).
Next make sure you know how to shoot it, and more importantly the extreme amount of discipline involved in making a life or death choice. Believe me, it may sound easy to make a shooting decision, but it is not, and if you and your family can safely get out of your home without a shootout, that is going to be your best choice. When you do get out, common sense says get as far away as possible, and call the police.
Mr. Knutson is quite correct, if you make the choice to shoot, and injury or death are the result of your actions, until all the facts come out, you will almost certainly be in jail. A word to the wise, make sure your weapon is not in your hand when the police arrive, police are trained to look at the hands, don’t become a needless victim. It is unfortunate in our criminal justice system the victims have few rights, so families of the perpetrator are likely to sue you.
Other non lethal alternatives are tasers, stun guns, pepper spray, batons, even swords, all of which I sell, again training is essential. A good piece of hardware is a monitored alarm system with security cameras if you can afford it, make sure you have outside surveillance as well as inside equipped with night vision technology, and make sure the system is armed, and includes a sign in the front yard. Most cities charge a small annual license fee for them, around 10 bucks.
Some really inexpensive methods could involve using baby monitors and cameras, many are wifi enabled, and offer audio, you can pipe the audio right to your smart phone, so you can hear uncommon noises, and monitor your home.
Make sure you have an exit strategy should the unthinkable happen, and make sure everyone knows it. Rehearse it! Again, it is so much better if you can just get out, and let the emergency services or the police handle it.
In terms of non lethal ammo, our security force does not recommend its use unless you are specifically trained and have practiced using it. All have the potential to be fatal, or even ineffective if not used properly. An old police officer once said “There is no second place in a shoot out”. With non lethal ammo, you may carelessly believe you are safe in making a shooting decision and kill someone thinking that it is truly “non lethal”, or not stop them and leave yourself and others at their mercy.
I do like the wasp spray mentioned, as those cans fire around 30′ accurately. I have to get a couple of cans for our house.
Since in our state, there are an increasing number of home invasions and a fare amount of them are drug dealers; should we be met with armed unauthorized entry, and we cannot escape, or get to safety, we have a plan of action. Make sure you do too.
I don’t believe in killing, so would go with a non lethal bullet. Of course where I aim it and it strikes is not where anyone would want hit. I think with an intruder down, you can ether tie him or knock him out, then call the police. I feel guns are a bit risky., and too much can go wrong.
I have had a experience of a Home Intruder. I was taking care of my 18month old grandson and my husband who was in a wheel chair. A knock on the door with a man saying he was delivering a Pizza I ordered.
Note: I never order home delivery of anything . I looked thru the Peep Hole of the door and said you have the wrong address, I did not order a Pizza. He replied you have won a free Pizza.
Meantime: I was watching the man thru the Peep Hole. He had on a Pizza Hut jacket (tee shirt) the Pizza Box was from God Father’s Pizza,and the box was open.
I picked up the phone and called 911. I was talking to the 911 operator when the door flew open from being kicked in. I seen two men come toward me. I put down the phone and yelled they are in the house help. My grandson was crying and my poor husband was trying to get out of the chair. I ran toward the first man and I took him down,and was sitting on him and asking 911 for help.
The second man started to try and pull me off the first man I went from being frightened for our lives to wanting to kill. This was only within a second. This has bothered me for years,how fast the wanting to kill can happen, Today my grandson is 22years old.
The second man was my grandson’s father. My daughter never was married to this man. I would have had every right to kill both men if I would have had a weapon. Could have saved my daughter a lot of heartache thru the years.
Sincerely G.B. Gandy
You make it sound like its ok to shoot at shadows. If you have a gun, your first legal obligation is to know what or who your target is and what the threat level is. Otherwise you will shoot a child or other innocent or not so deadly person. Your first combat obligation is to obtain cover. If no cover, then some concealment. This alone will give you that extra second to determine your threat. You also need some light. Best if its combined with gun. After you determine your target is a deadly threat then you better use something to bring the situation to a quick halt. Unfortunately, you can’t count on rubber bullets, etc. if the guy is high on drugs, they may not work effectively. In each case where the aforementioned alternatives are suggested, the user is typically not in imminent danger. There’s no easy answer but if it occurs to you, then you better be prepared, trained and practiced or you will lose one way or the other. Having a gun sitting in a drawer for 20 years won’t get it done.
A can of wasp spray, stream type not spray, will shoot a stream twenty to thirty feet. Hit someone in the eye with it and they will forget what they were doing or even why. Then they might suffer some really sore spots after falling down so hard.
I don’t have a gun at the moment–my last one was stolen–but if I replace it, my plan is to put a blank or a shotshell in the first chamber. The other rounds would, of course, be real bullets.
Be aware that while this sounds great, without modification a shot shell or a blank cartridge will NOT cycle a semi automatic handgun, so once discharged a live round will not be chambered. So, make sure it is a revolver, if you choose this path. In Texas, warning shots are illegal. If you have to shoot, you shoot to solve the problem with deadly force.
I like the things you’ve mentioned, but is there anywhere someone who doesn’t work on the police force can get them?
great topic one problem i live in the uk the only people who have firearms are the criminals as a law abiding citizen i’m not aloud a gun because other people break the law with them at the moment they haven’t banned kitchen knives but i still need a reason to have it at hand saying i had it for self defence would get me life in prison fight gun control or give up the right to defend your self
If I have to pull my gun due to someone possibly threatening, I sure won’t be using non-lethal bullets.
I know the intruder won’t be there to play nice. If you plan on breaking in, count on being carried out by the coroner.
Lets get real.
Bruce
I totally agree with your thinking with one exception. Seems today since the criminal has our justice system bleeding more for his rights than the victims I would try and make sure he understands that should he get off to some legal technicality and should attempt to try again real bullets will be used
And the mortician will be called in place of the law.
D.H.
Frank,
Great topic in this day and age of maniacal anti-gun laws and self defense laws being challenged for repealed.
As a police firearms instructor and SWAT commander for over 30 years, I’ve effectively used all these in combat with the exception of the new high-tech Electric Shock Bullets. And I have no professional associates I talk to often who have used the electrics either.
All the above suggestions will work (in most cases). HOWEVER, and there is always a however in life.
1. Rubber bullets from a shotgun are much more effective that handgun rounds.
2. Full load wax bullets can be fatal at close range … and they are hit and miss with little effect at ranges over 35 feet.
3. Even SPEER Plastic bullets can be fatal at point blank range … and inflict only enough pain to make someone angry beyond about 15 feet unless they are naked.
4. Again, bean bag ammo in a shotgun is effective … handgun rounds not so much.
Use of a firearm lethal or non-lethal force is a hard choice to make. Coping with the aftermath of a shooting incident will be devastating; Arrest for sure, jail likely, exoneration 50/50 and civil lawsuits almost guaranteed! Your entire life will be raped and most if not all of your finances wiped out.
It may sound a bit weird … but keeping a fresh can of Wasp Spray here and there around your home or business can also be a less than lethal alternative to fend off attackers!!! It shoots 30 feet or more and hit in the face with just a little assures the perpetrator is headed for the hospital.
O.M.Knutson
Peace Officer Retired
Hey Frank, and all of you other shootests. I’ve read your comments with a mixture of sadness and amusement. Some of you are so gun crazed you have more weapons than you can possably use. then the list goes from spitting peanuts to blasting hand cannons at some one in the middle of the night. Frankly, I don’t think with a few possable exceptions that most of you have the slitest idea what you would do if some one broke into your homes, or how you would do it. As for my self, as long as get out or die works then I won’t have to pull the trigger. if it comes to protecting my self or my family in the middle of the night, then I’ll have to live with my actions.
While I might agree that in some apartment/condo situations the consideration of ammo with less energy is appropiate it is NOT because of consideration for the perp but ONLY for consideration of those on the other side of the wall. I keep my doors locked as (in my opinion) any resonable person should do and I have place other “flags” (beware of dog etc.) that indicate that maybe the next house will be a softer target. IF “you” should end up in my house uninvited and do not with great speed obey a command to get on your face, your next step is the decision point at which point my CBM training will be used until either “you” have stopped or I’m all brass on the deck.
The next step and probably the toughest to survive (ie not end up in jail forever) in many states is the arrival of law enforcement and their questions.
So it goes back to step one you need to have a plan that fits you and your family and situation that includes not only handleing the ass(ialent) but the (with respect) cops afterword.
ive been known to cut thru a 12ga. shell just below the shot cup. it leaves damage but not leathal. also you now have the propelant and the projectile is up to you. do not use a hot dog as i found this totally destroyed a ghetto blaster so …well use yer imagination. a charge like this will push anything down the tube from confetti to a stick to ……
You are not supposed to fire unless you fear that your life or the lives of others would be in danger.
Bo Gritz recommends RBDC ammo. This is a frangible bullet that delivers full energy to the first thing it hits and disintegrates; it is less likely to penetrate walls and endanger persons on the other side.
However, I have never tested it on a live person or on the next door neighbor through the walls of my condo.
We have had an old drunk wander into the house, however the door was not locked and he fled when my wife simply yelled at him. We have since taken to securing windows and locking doors, even when expecting company and especially when in the back rooms. Any intruder would then have to force their way in reducing MY decision-making (especially at night) to ONE choice- NEUTRALIZE the threat. A “center-of-mass” aim-point may not guarantee “termination” but, like any good law-enforcement technique, if ‘2 in the body’ have no effect, then the ‘rest-in-the-face’ certainly will. In ANY case, I still CONFIRM my target. If the target threatens, confirmation time is negligible. My wife still prefers the preamble of the sound a 12 gauge shell being chambered (during ‘confirmation-of-target) prior neutralizing ‘said’ target. That is, of course, her prerogative. Pitty any intruder who would assault her in the kitchen amongst all those “utensils”. (Shotgun would be kinder.)
I have seen some of these non-lethal ammo at a practice range and I have to admit that although some were man stoppers, and non-lethal, but some were put to the test, as like paintball ammo. They froze the non-lethal wax and plastic bullets and they were far more dangerous then a regular bullet. Living in Arizona, we keep paint ball rounds in the refrigerator so they won’t melt. But freezing them is just like a solid steel ball bearing, and will penetrate just about anything. I do not approve of freezing paint balls for maneuvers or a paint ball game. To preserve only in the summer where our weather hits above 120 F. Electric bullets may kill someone who has a pacemaker or other heart related problems. Which could be defined as lethal. Same as Tasers. So I guess I stick with bean bag rounds… Scare the hell out of the perp and still non-lethal, not to kill. But you have to make sure you hit them properly. Because if they are hit in the neck, throat, or face, these can do some real damage and who would be blamed??? Get my cattle prod and horse whip, No one would be safe then. I BELIEVE IN THE 2nd AMENDMENT! ! !
The only thing that worries me about the second scenario (a mental person or a wrongfully influenced teenager) is that you decide to use a non-lethal ammo and the intruder ends up not being a mental person or a misguided teen, but an actual perpetrator; in this case the invading perpetrator lives and upon release of jail or prison comes back to take a second crack….. if nothing more than revenge and possibly when your not home to protect your children or wife.
Just a thought… currently I have multiple pre-loaded clips (mags) some with full metal jacket for taking a quick trip to the range and another set with Jacketed Hallow Points for the intruder. Guns are always locked and loaded with the only fine motor skill required is removing the thumb safety.
Next investment is to pick up a 1911 with a front rail to mount a light, so I can quickly turn it on to quickly see the intruder with sleep filled eyes and worry less about where he is standing before he is on the floor… unfortunately for him DEAD!
I couldn’t imagine taking a life; even though I have tried in my training, however; I know beyond a shadow of doubt that I would be better off with that on my conscience than loosing a loved one to a perpetrator. God Bless America and the people that love her
As a former Federal LEO who lives with just his wife (also a shooter), I have the .45 ACP loaded with home-defense rounds, and the 12 ga. with #6 bird. Neither will go thru & thru, and since the townhouse has concrete block walls, that’s okay too. But the bottom line is that when someone starts coming up the steps and my lady is already in bed, the 12 gauge will be racked and the voice of doom-and-gloom will warn them, “GET OUT OF MY HOUSE OR DIE!”
Ninety-nine times out of 100, I’ll never have to fire that weapon; if I DO, I want that SOB to go backward down those steps with a hamburger chest, and wait for the cops to respond to my lady’s 9-1-1 call. And if THOSE 5 rounds don’t suffice, 8 Hornady heart-stoppers WILL.
Because I would MUCH RATHER be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
They are good for their shock value ! What are you going to next with the perp ? Once they realize they are not severely injured and are now really ticked at you, they are going to want their pound of flesh ! Now What !!!!
Only problem with these non-lethal bullets is the lawsuits they tend to leave you fighting. If he has broken and you are afraid, you can shoot and kill him and most of the time it is the end of it. If you use some other method, like say plastic or rubber bullets and hurt him, maybe hit him in the eye and blind him, you leave yourself open for all kinds of law suits. It is OK to shoot to stop him but it is not OK to shoot to wound him. Be careful with this one because it could bite you big time.
If you are justified and shoot to stop him and he dies – it is ok. If you shoot to wound him – lawsuit time.
If I was to use non lethal ammo, it would be only the first round. That would be followed up by Extreme Shock Enhanced Penetration Rounds of ammo, also known as EPROM ammo. This is the only controlled expansion/ penetrating Ammo on the Market, that worth
Is every time it is fired. This ammo is designed to dump 100% of it’s energy into that body and it will not pass through a wall and hit someone on the other side.
My Wife and I use this in all of our pistols and revolvers used for CCW or Home Defense and I use it in my rifles when a pass thru or richocett is absolutely not to happen. It is some extremely powerful ammo that does the job everytime! I have put down wild Hogs with single shots from a 380 acp, a 9mm, 40s&w, 10mm, 45 acp, 45 long Colt and 44 magnum ammo. Also .223, .303, 30-06 and sub sonic in .308 and 30-06 ammo. I have Never had a Pass-thru with any round, and have always had One Shot Kills that are usually instantasious!
THANK YOU FOR PUTTING UP YOUR WEB-SITE INFORMATION. I TRUST THAT I WILL USE MY 2ND AMMEMDMENT RIGHT TO KEEP ME AND MY FAMILY SAFE AT ANY COST.
JM
As a Firearms instructor one of the first things I teach students is that once you pull the trigger you have to live with the results the rest of your life. In most states if a person breaks into your home and you shoot him and they don’t have a weapon you can go to jail for a very long time. If you do use deadly force and don’t kill them they or their families can sue you and take everything you have. Also the most common ammo like 9mm, .40 and 45 cal. will easily go through walls in a house if you miss. Think about how you would feel if you killed your child sleeping in the next bedroom because you missed the intruder. Then on top of that the intruder didn’t have a gun to begin with. If you are going to use a gun for protection take some firearm courses.
I myself keep a 12 next to the bed and it is loaded with non-lethal ammo. if he enters the bedroom and I shoot them it will stop or slow them down enough. for us to have called the police and to maintain our position till help arrives. The law says I have a right to protect myself not kill someone. I agree it is better to be tried by 12 then carried by 6 but I don’t want to hurt an innocent person or go to jail for 20 years. Again the best way to not be a victim IS TO REFUSE TO BE A VICTIM. GET TRAINING AND USE YOUR HEAD
please let me know where to get the alternative ammo so i may load 1 or 2 non lethal followed by a bunch of lead and copper. I’ll give someone that much of a chance. its like a warning
More thoughts, after reading other articles. Yes, shooting the wrong person is a horror. It is called friendly fire, which is not friendly, really. I have done it in practice, never in reality (Vietnam vet here).
Considering how many “enemies” I shot in practice compared to “friendly”, I had an excellent ratio of “killing” the right guy in practice. As for the real thing, I don’t have a ratio because 100 to zero is not a ratio. Although not designated a sniper, my skill was such that I made more kill hits with the same type of rifle than a designated sniper. My ammo use was equal to his. He had 67 confirmed kills. At 300 yards, I could put three groups of shots in the chest area in less than 35 seconds, going from standing to prone, and changing magazines during shooting to do it, and that was just in practice. That was a demonstration of how to do it. Yes, the Marines adhere to the saying, “Don’t bother running, you’ll only die tired.” For all of you who are concerned with your consciences and lawsuits, if your assailant killed you, you don’t need to be concerned, so problem is solved. As for having lethal and non-lethal ammo in the same firearm, some non-lethal ammo won’t work in anything except a shotgun, so how quickly can you sit up, grab your shotgun and take action? As for two firearms with non- and lethal type ammo, respectively, which one will you grab when you are in a hurry? Which one is closer? So, why fool around, guys? The only question is not that you will point a gun at someone and shoot, it is whether you intend to kill them or not, and there are instances where “non-lethal” ammo has proven to be the opposite. Yes, they are infrequent, but in every case, the person killed was not within household type distances, so what are they going to do up-close and very personal? As for shooting someone you love, I hope you practice more than that, and that you take the “sheet-rock” tip one of you gave. An acquaintance of mine just got a CCW in the People’s Republic of Fresno, California. The chief, during his CCW interview, told him that “You qualified, and the truth is that my department is unable to defend you, I am happy to give you your permit.” Considering the recent anti-gun move, you also need to ask yourselves if you would shoot at someone wearing a badge. They need to ask themselves if they would enforce a law that violates the Second Amendment, and be sure that as many as 25% will try. I am not nuts. It is just difficult for me to understand why I could carry and use an assault rifle for 22 years and now it is not okay. I am still sane and loyal to the United States Constitution as it was originally conceived and written!
All of the ammo types you mentioned can be neutralized by padded clothing or by drugs. Are the intruders using this type(s) of ammo? When police enter a residence on a raid, they all carry lelthal ammo. The RII report, used by the FBI, said that the only true reliable stopper is a hit to the vitals, the more the better, and the greater the shock, the better. I teach two to the body, and if they don’t stay down, one to the head. As for guns, gold, seeds, it depends on the situation. If people are peaceful, then seeds to grow food, which is barterable, consumable, and makes more seeds. If they are not peaceful, 5 lbs. of gun and ammo will get you 5 lbs. of gold or seed, so quit the ridiculous questions. I have experimented with frangibles of various types, from HP to you name it. While the temporary cavity (effect) is amazing (a 9 mm can give a shock cavity of 9 inches with some ammo, at least in clay), fatal hits that penetrate deeply are necessary for success in saving your life against an assailant. Carl is right; most cops can’t hit squat, even when their department provides practice ammo for them. Many of them just take it and sell it or give it away. They aren’t required to provide evidence they practiced, in most cases, anyway. In any police shooting, the number of shots fired by them compared to the number of hits has ranged from 20:1 down to 5:1 in every report I have read. I don’t want to be anywhere near the police when they start shooting, and I have walked right into the middle of a potential gun battle while walking out of a Radio Shack with my family. Thank God I did not have a concealed carry permit nor a gun on me at the time. I would likely not be here.
My Dad was a Chief of Police, His advice to me was shoot to kill and don’t miss. You only get one chance to protect yourself and if you aren’t trained or capable of H2H self defense, a gun is your best bet.
I told the local PD officers in a conversation, that I could put the whole 1911 .45 magazine into a 1 Gallon Paint can at 50Ft. None of them shoot enough to have that kind of accuracy. Also, I go for the head with the first shot and then CoM for the rest. Why that method? if you don’t hit with the first round, the rest will slow them down. Dead men tell no tales!
I have a carry permit and have a wepon on me at all times. Most people think they would shoot non lethal first and see what happens. You would probably not have the option to do any thing buy that been bag. If a person is going to attack you and is within 12 to 15 feet, (1) you are not going to have time to raise that shotgun before he reaches you, you have apx 3 seconds if someone is that close. I’m pretty much a realist, when the police say why did I shoot him 11 times I will tell him , “That’s all the bullets I had.”. Anyway if you maim a person you are lible for a law suit. If he or she is dead, they can’t say adverse things and sue you for rendering them ball less. Check your legal system and ask some police and see what they would do. If a person is in my house breaking in for what ever reason without my permission he or she is a dead person. I for one will not be asking questions, “Do you want tea or soda.”
I have a number of lethal weapons, some of which are loaded and within arms reach. I like the idea of” bardnsage” has ,with doubleing the sheet rock. I would protect my family from any intruder.
Not sure how I would handle it emotionally having to kill someone. Being an avid target shoter I’m pretty sure ,my shot would hit the mark.
As someone said here ,how about if it’s a kid on a dare , or ill person wandered in. Maybe we would be safe ,but I would have to live with that .I’m gonna look more into non lethal load ,1st one or 2 in chamber ,then a lethal shot .
Why does it have to be all or nothing?
Night time intruder,,, first round in the semi-auto 12 is a bean bag,,, then rest are standard #4 shot.
If the bean bag does not change their mind or put them down,,, the next one will. And I get a bonus in a civil court, for attempting to use non-lethal force before deadly force. Only me and my family know how fast I pulled the trigger from shell #1 to shell #2.
I’ve doubled the sheet rock on the kids rooms to 2 layers of 5/8″ fire rated gypsum, and put up solid wood doors. This will stop the #4, and provides an effective 2 hour fire barrier as a bonus.
More kids die from house fires than from intruders or accidental shootings from their parents combined.
The other bonus of this system,,, is the neighbor’s dogs have a distinct limp,,, but no one seems to know exactly what happened and why they stay out of my yard.
In regards to Lethal versus Non-Lethal,, My weapons of choice are firearms, the only difference is non-lethal shooting versus lethal shooting.. Your frame of mind is made up by the Intruders vocal and non-vocal threat, in which case you aim for center mass or for non center mass, lethal or non lethal.. dead or injured and non threatening.. A weapon is a tool, just like a screwdriver can be used to build things or to stab someone to death.. A weapon is anything you put in your hand and use in a menacing fashion towards another person or object.. Knitting needles are weapons, baseball bat is a weapon, a hammer is a weapon, a high heel shoe is a weapon, a heavy purse is a weapon, If you dont think that anything can be considered a weapon, please stop by unannounced in the middle of the night and crawl thru the window you just broke out to help yourself to my fridge. I’m soo glad i could stop by and clear things up..
when I’m not at the range all of my weapons ( I have 13 different handguns, rifles and shotguns) are loaded with either fragibles or some type of bean bag round. I’m with Carl Wester, however, I live in a duplex home and I have a family whom I dont wont to shot and I would hate to mistakenly shot a neighbor with a loose bullet, assuming they aren’t the intruder.
Have four lethal weapons with 50 rounds of lethal ammo for each, minimum. Blow ’em back into the stone age !!! .
..and you liberals are so open mind that your brains have fallen off.
Have two fire arms. One with non-lethal ammo and one with. If the intruder did not get the message after the non-lethal, better you save your own life than worry about his/ hers!